Participant Profile
Tamao Sasada
Other : Country Executive for Japan, Bank of AmericaOther : President and Representative Director, BofA Securities Japan Co., Ltd.Faculty of Law GraduateKeio University alumni (1991, Faculty of Law). Joined Merrill Lynch Japan Securities (now BofA Securities) in 1998. Served as Director and Co-Head of Investment Banking in 2018 before assuming current position in 2019.
Tamao Sasada
Other : Country Executive for Japan, Bank of AmericaOther : President and Representative Director, BofA Securities Japan Co., Ltd.Faculty of Law GraduateKeio University alumni (1991, Faculty of Law). Joined Merrill Lynch Japan Securities (now BofA Securities) in 1998. Served as Director and Co-Head of Investment Banking in 2018 before assuming current position in 2019.
Interviewer: Keigo Komamura
Faculty of Law ProfessorInterviewer: Keigo Komamura
Faculty of Law Professor
2023/08/15
From Lawyer to the World of Finance
──You have had an incredible career. Could you tell us about your career path leading up to today?
My first career path was as a foreign lawyer, triggered by the opportunity to study abroad at the University of Melbourne in Australia as a Juku exchange student while I was at Keio University. I qualified as a lawyer in New South Wales, Australia, one year after graduation, and later in New York State. I worked at a major corporate law firm in New York for three years until 1998, when I joined Merrill Lynch (now Bank of America, BofA Securities).
I chose the path of a foreign lawyer rather than Japanese law because the passing rate for the Japanese bar exam was low, and there was a high possibility that the timing for starting my career would be delayed. Additionally, having lived abroad during my childhood and middle school years, and through my study abroad experiences in high school and university, I felt little resistance to an English-speaking environment. I also felt a strong desire to challenge myself in a global work environment where women might find it easier to work.
After my time as a lawyer in the US and elsewhere, I entered the world of finance. I started working in Tokyo for a foreign financial institution. When I changed jobs in 1998, it was a time when management instability and bad debt issues at Japanese financial institutions were beginning to surface, just before the reorganization of the financial industry began.
Also, my grandmother, whom I respected, was a female doctor, and I think her way of life influenced my career choices.
──Why did you move from being a lawyer to the world of finance?
It wasn't that I grew to dislike legal work. My work at the US law firm was mainly Japan-related business, with Japanese financial institutions and corporations as the primary clients. My curiosity grew as I wanted to not only support clients from a legal standpoint but also better understand the perspective of management, corporate strategy, and financial strategy from the company's side. This became the catalyst for my career change.
I was approached by Merrill Lynch, had my first interview locally, and changed jobs. I was assigned to the Investment Banking Division in Tokyo, a department that helps Japanese corporate clients with fundraising and M&A. It was another start from zero.
──Specifically, what kind of work have you been doing?
The Investment Banking Division is a department that supports the planning and execution of corporate capital raising strategies and provides advice on mergers and acquisitions. Initially, I was in charge of financial institution clients, mainly megabanks, as an "investment banker," but gradually I began to look at industrial corporations as well. As structural changes in the business environment accelerate, the flow of money is also globalizing. My job is to provide advice on clients' business development and financial strategies from an international perspective.
I often work on deals covered by the Nikkei newspaper. Since we handle highly confidential information, we are constantly required to strengthen internal management governance, such as thorough information management. Through various global and domestic projects, it is a business model where bankers can grow together with their clients. While the pressure is high, it is dynamic and rewarding work.
When I first joined, I thought that since it was a major foreign financial institution, the Japanese workplace would also be advanced in terms of diversity. Certainly, looking at the company as a whole, there were many women and multinational employees, and diversity was advanced especially at the executive level. However, in the Investment Banking Division, the clients were Japanese companies, and there were few women, so I often caught glimpses of Japanese corporate culture. Now, the number of female bankers has increased, and clients have also progressed in diversifying their human resources along with globalization, so the environment has changed significantly.
A Woman Appointed as Top Executive at a Financial Institution
──Ms. Sasada, you have two statuses: "woman" and "Japanese," which can be both advantageous and disadvantageous. How did these two attributes work in your career formation?
Instead of obsessing over these two identities, I tried to positively utilize the strengths of my attributes. For example, as you get promoted and your position rises, the number of male subordinates increases. Regardless of gender, if you are in a leadership position, you lead the team, but building a strong team based on a foundation of trust is essential. You cannot do the work alone. The power of colleagues to achieve things together is great, and you experience success as a team. To that end, it is important to have a correct axis and foster an inclusive team and culture where individuals bring their respective strengths to the table. That itself can be done regardless of gender or nationality.
Furthermore, with the globalization of clients and the diversification of business, a broader range of thinking is required from the proposing side. To ensure that clients make the most of the overseas networks and expertise unique to a foreign firm, it is necessary to build relationships of trust with overseas colleagues. This is also an essential element in business, regardless of whether one is Japanese or a woman. I learned this myself in the process of career formation and I convey this to my colleagues.
──And so, within the structure of Japanese male-dominated society, you were promoted to Country Executive and President and Representative Director.
I assumed the position in 2019, and I wonder if I received this result because I faced what was in front of me with all my might without running away. Who we are today is the result of the solid foundation in Japan built by our predecessors and the accumulation of achievements created by our employees sharing values as a team. I always have a sense of gratitude and a desire to give back.
Bank of America acquired Merrill Lynch during the global financial crisis in 2009, changed its trade name to BofA a few years ago, and our Japan base celebrated its 75th anniversary last year. Especially in the last 10 years, there have been various changes based on a major strategic shift from a traditional securities firm to a bank.
Also, in the last few years, amid unprecedented unforeseen circumstances such as COVID-19, the Russia-Ukraine war, and the manifestation of geopolitical risks like US-China issues, I feel that the way a financial institution should be is being questioned.
On the other hand, in June this year, the Nikkei Stock Average hit a high for the first time in 33 years since the bubble era, and the Japanese market is showing activity for the first time in a long while. For the Japan base of a foreign financial institution, it is always an important task to have the headquarters understand the voices of clients and employees and to increase Japan's presence.
I want to continue efforts to visualize the contributions and potential of Japanese employees and improve the credibility of Team Japan in Asia and globally, and give back to the next generation.
──There are 29 major listed Japanese companies with zero female directors, and 20 of them are currently in a rush to appoint female directors at their shareholders' meetings. I think it is a standout event that both the President and Vice President of BofA Securities are women. Are there many women in the company to begin with?
In Japan, about 45% are women. Regarding the recruitment of women, we are conscious of both new graduates and mid-career hires, and we also focus on development and retention. For example, if there is a mid-career recruitment slot, HR checks whether there are women among the candidates, and efforts are made to include women among the interviewers.
When it was announced that both the President and Vice President (Ms. Reiko Hayashi) were women—a first for a financial institution in Japan—we received a lot of wonderful support!
How to Advance D&I
──What kind of creative approaches are you taking toward D&I (Diversity & Inclusion) under the Sasada administration?
In Japan, where about 30% of employees are foreign nationals, we place importance on building a place where diverse human resources can thrive. For example, through five employee networks (women's advancement, LGBTQ, bridging the generational gap, support for people with disabilities, nursing care/childcare support, etc.), we have created a system for information exchange and reflecting employee voices. Through these employee networks, we collaborate not only within the company but also with the region and community to solve issues.
D&I is led by our headquarters CEO, Brian Moynihan, who personally chairs the Global Diversity & Inclusion Council (GDIC), which sets the direction for the company's diversity efforts. I am also the Asia representative for this council, and through various activities, I feel how the company incorporates D&I into the core of its management strategy and commits to it from the top down.
This council meets quarterly for two days of discussions related to diversity. It serves as a forum for information exchange, such as analyzing data on female ratios, recruitment by race and gender, development, and turnover rates by department, country, and region. The importance of valuing the wide range of thoughts and opinions generated by diverse human resources, and having an environment where employees feel safe to speak up about their thoughts and ideas and take on challenges, is discussed globally through various programs and committees.
──So you are the representative for Asia. Is Asia not lagging behind a little?
Surprisingly, I think Asia is doing its best. In China, the ratio of female employees is high, and in Southeast Asia, the rise of the younger generation is prominent. Women's advancement is a common theme across Asia, but depending on the country, there are also issues such as racial discrimination. Incidentally, in Asia, the country representatives for five countries—Thailand, Indonesia, China, India, and Japan—are women. Isn't that a bit surprising?
──Yes, it is. Hearing your earlier story about having various networks within the company, I thought it was a very good initiative and, at the same time, it sounded very enjoyable.
Yes. There are many internal and external events. Recently, there was a dialogue (LGBTQ event) with lawyer Evan Wolfson, who won marriage equality for same-sex marriage, which Mr. Komamura also attended at our company. There are various other events, with about 50 events held annually.
──It's good that these are things you can do in your "everyday clothes" rather than as formal business duties.
That's right. It also leads to new discoveries and learning. Also, from a networking perspective, it's a good opportunity to get to know employees from other departments. For example, in some front-office roles, there are departments with little contact with people in technology or operations. Deepening mutual understanding that we can drive business precisely because we have the support of administrative departments also leads to improved governance.
What is a Trusted Financial Institution?
──Recently, there have been various initiatives such as ESG (Environment, Social, Governance). With the kind of initiatives you just mentioned, I felt that you are overcoming the walls that must be crossed very flexibly and with room to spare.
At Bank of America, since the financial crisis, our current CEO Moynihan has consistently advocated a "Responsible Growth" strategy. Based on the lessons from the financial crisis, he believes that growing sustainably brings high-quality results.
Also, in recent years, as one of the corporate slogans, the CEO asks employees, "What would you like the power to do?" Even in a rapidly changing environment, how can we enrich the financial lives of our clients, employees, communities, and other broad stakeholders? In asking what a company and its employees should be for that purpose, we have D&I and sustainability initiatives that we practice as pillars of our management strategy.
──Regarding investment, a trend is now emerging to think not just about making money, but also about what value the company can add and give back to society.
Yes. To put it in a Japanese way, a concept close to "Sanpo-yoshi" (good for three sides) exists within the company's DNA. As a financial institution, it is vital to stay close to our clients and provide advice that makes them think of us as a trusted advisor.
Creating a System for Women's Success
──The "Women's Version of the Basic Policy" recently announced by the Kishida Cabinet stated that the ratio of female directors would reach 30% by 2030. What do you think about this?
I think such government initiatives and goal settings are wonderful. However, what's important is the process, right? It tends to become a matter of just making up the numbers to achieve numerical targets. Personally, I think that might be okay at first. It is also important to make the pool of female candidates as large as possible.
──It really is about the process.
That's right. I think there are various measures, but let me introduce our initiatives. For example, there is a system called Male Advocacy. It is a system where male employees at the middle management or department head level take ownership of pulling up junior women, and it is a mechanism that also links to the evaluation of those men.
When a woman hesitates, saying, "I don't want to do it because no one has experienced it before," if there is a system that pushes her forward, saying, "The person who chose you took a risk to select you," I think the number of women who accept the challenge will increase.
As the number of female managers increases, it becomes easier for people to think, "That senior colleague is doing it, so I want to try it too." Having a role model is very helpful for junior women.
──It's important to have women who serve as models at various stages. Ms. Sasada, are you aware of being a role model?
It might be happening naturally. Men have started telling me so as well, and while I am happy, it also makes me feel a sense of responsibility.
Stepping Out of Your Comfort Zone
──Ms. Sasada and I are senior and junior members of the same Setsu Kobayashi seminar, but my impression of you as a student was that you were in the Athletic Association, always tanned, really energetic, healthy, and sparkling.
I wasn't in the Athletic Association, but I was a healthy child (laughs). Anyway, it was always fun. I am a returnee from Malaysia and a graduate of Keio Girls Senior High School. The high school also had a fresh, free atmosphere, the relationship between teachers and students was good, and it was a wonderful environment. When I entered university, there were various people, and it was even more diverse. I feel truly grateful to have friends around me with whom I still have close relationships after graduation.
──Looking back after graduation, what kind of school do you think Keio University is?
I think it's a school that values individual strengths. Exactly independence and self-respect. It's free, and I think the sense of belonging to the school is strong. Loyalty is high, and many people are proud to be Juku members. That kind of power leads to strong networking and organizational strength. There are many people with the potential to be active globally, and it is a comfortable environment for graduates where they can speak a common language.
However, I also feel that that alone is not enough. There might be areas where I feel there should be more diverse places where people can be active.
──There are many people who are blessed in various ways, but some are not very aware of it. I also sometimes feel it's a waste because of that. Do you have any words of advice for a woman's career?
Go out of your comfort zone. I often tell my team, "Let's step out of our comfortable environment and take on a challenge." Have a spirit of challenge and leadership, believe that what you have decided is the best decision, and move forward. Also, having experienced the COVID-19 pandemic, it is important to be agile (able to respond quickly to change).
Recently, the rapid evolution of AI such as ChatGPT has been talked about, but the next 10 years will see much faster changes than before. I think we are entering an era where we are required to make decisions with a sense of speed. Regarding careers, there are things you won't know until you try, but please take it easy thinking "it will work out somehow," stay curious, believe in yourself, and do your best.
──I hope many people will follow in Ms. Sasada's footsteps. Thank you very much for today.
(Recorded on June 23, 2023, at Keio University Mita Campus)
*Affiliations and titles are as of the time of publication.