[Feature: Sustainable Consumption] Roundtable Discussion: How to Change Consumption to Realize the SDGs

Today, I would like to talk with everyone about the theme of sustainable consumption. A topic often raised in this area is food loss (food waste) in the field of "food." The "Act on Promotion of Food Loss Reduction" was recently passed in this Diet session, and I believe various initiatives will be moving forward from here. Mr. Takahashi won the Grand Prix at the Japan SDGs Awards in this field last year, and his business is attracting a great deal of attention.

Furthermore, the fashion field is something we feel close to. Through "ethical fashion," the concept of earth-friendly, sustainable fashion is becoming better understood. This May, fashion model Ms. Tominaga was appointed as the Consumer Affairs Agency's "Ethical Lifestyle SDGs Ambassador." I believe it is very important to have a famous person like Ms. Tominaga address these issues firmly so that people in the world recognize "ethical fashion" and "sustainable fashion" as something stylish.

And I believe the role of Ms. Okamura, who is leading such sustainable and ethical consumption from the administrative side, is extremely important.

First, Ms. Okamura, could you please give us a brief explanation of the Consumer Affairs Agency's initiatives?

At the Consumer Affairs Agency, we define "ethical consumption" in the Basic Plan for Consumers as "consumption behavior that considers people, society, and the environment, including regional revitalization and employment." To make it even easier to understand, we promote it as "consumption activities where each consumer considers the resolution of social issues relevant to them and supports businesses working on those issues."

As mentioned, the "Act on Promotion of Food Loss Reduction" was passed in this Diet session. This will come into effect within six months, but the Consumer Affairs Agency, in cooperation with relevant ministries, has already taken significant action regarding food loss. In 2013, we created a logo (Loss-non) and began nationwide awareness activities; over the last two or three years, media coverage of food loss has also been increasing.

With this momentum building, the law to promote food loss reduction was passed unanimously. Since every October is Food Loss Reduction Month, we are currently moving to finalize specific preparations for implementation with a target of this October.

The current status of food loss is 6.43 million tons per year (2016), about half of which comes from households. When converted per person, it amounts to 51 kilograms.

So an enormous amount of food is going to waste.

That's right. Since the Consumer Affairs Agency is a government office that exists for a safe and secure life, we believe that a safe and secure life must be sustainable.

Therefore, we have carried out various activities to realize a sustainable society. The start of the SDGs (Sustainable Development Goals) adopted at the UN Summit in 2015 integrated these activities, and it was a good opportunity to collaborate with various people. Since the participation of people who were not previously involved in national policy-making is being sought, it provides diversity to the "future design" that is the work of government offices.

The Consumer Affairs Agency exists between companies (businesses) and consumers. In other words, it is most efficient for companies to do things that are supported as a business. Therefore, to encourage companies to practice management that values consumers—who are all members of society—we started an award for excellent examples of consumer-oriented management.

Mr. Kanie also joined as a selection committee member, and last year we held the first awards for consumer-oriented management. Although it is an activity that has just begun, we have created and are promoting a platform for promoting consumer-oriented management in cooperation with business organizations and consumer groups. We also call this "sustainable management" as a nickname.

So you have been doing various things very ambitiously since before the term SDGs became widespread, and now they are taking shape.

The purpose of the Consumer Affairs Agency is to promote "correct consumption." Since we are originally an economic agency, we send out the message that "your choice today to shop as an economic activity will change the future of the world."

In that context, you asked Ms. Tominaga to be the ambassador this time.

Yes. The reason we asked Ms. Tominaga is that, as Mr. Kanie said, by having someone with high influence like Ms. Tominaga work with us with shared aspirations, we want everyone to feel that thinking correctly and choosing what to buy for oneself is "stylish."

If "stylish" is hard to understand, "wonderful" is also fine, but we want to convey to all generations that there is significance in practicing correct consumption. Looking at Ms. Tominaga's activities so far, I thought she was someone who exerts her strength for the sake of correct values, so I asked her to become the ambassador.

As a top model, there is of course the feeling of admiration for her being wonderful, but I expect that by her speaking out not just about the world of fashion but about lifestyle as a whole, the significance of this activity will spread.

Thank you. As Ms. Okamura says, the idea that "correct consumption is stylish" is exactly what brands in the fashion industry themselves are aiming for now. The meaning of "luxury" is currently undergoing a change.

Until now, trendy things were created every season, and wearing those new things was considered luxury. In short, I think luxury was perceived only as satisfying human desires, but now people are choosing brands that support the background of the product, such as humanitarian aid or environmental issues.

And people are starting to think that "buying such brands is true wealth." We are entering exactly that kind of era now.

I also think the emergence of the term SDGs is very significant.

We are entering an era where people living their lives should also enter the circle of sustainable and responsible production and consumption and participate themselves.

Regarding the issue of food loss, I also think that "correct consumption" is important. Food loss is a problem for the entire supply chain, but on the other hand, the way consumers buy things is also a huge factor.

Until now, emphasis was placed on things like "it's a beautiful red tomato," color, shape, and price. If a customer complained about a bruised potato, saying "Why are you putting this out?", supermarkets would try not to display them. But in reality, only a very small portion of people think that way.

That's true.

Most Japanese people buy things without complaining, but at store manager meetings, they are influenced by the voices of about 1% of the total who say, "That's not a beautiful red tomato." When that happens, the food that is rejected in that way creates more and more loss.

Therefore, it would be good if consumers also said, for example, "I'll buy that bruised potato if it's 30 yen off." An izakaya I go to serves leftover sashimi garnish with dressing as a service if you return it, but that became possible because a consumer suggested it. If the buyer doesn't say anything, it just gets thrown away.

It is very important for consumers to speak out about what kind of things they want to buy. I believe that will change the world.

I also try to choose fair trade bananas, but they aren't sold very often. There are also few marks that make it clearly identifiable. I think I'm the type who chooses carefully when buying, but mothers out there don't have much time, so when they go shopping at a nearby supermarket, they tend to just buy what is there.

After all, there isn't enough information. We are in a situation where we can only judge based on the price and appearance of what is currently available. A little while ago, for example, a greengrocer in a shopping district might have said, "This tomato has a bit of a bad shape, but it's organic so it's delicious," or "They're in season and tasty, so I'll give you two extra," which I think actually eliminated loss.

I see, that's true.

In the end, because there is no communication between consumers and the distribution side, a gap keeps growing, and I think that is one factor creating food loss.

If what consumers really want is safety, taste, and healthiness, I think it would be better to say things like, "I want you to post photos where I can see the producers' faces," "I want you to think about the packaging," or "I want you to increase QR codes that show origin information."

Everyone says they can't change things with just their own power, but looking at store manager meetings, the voice of a single consumer is very loud, and they are swayed by that voice. Rather, I think the distribution side can be changed quite a bit by having people raise their voices.

It's important to create a place where opinions are reflected. Something like a suggestion box might be good, and SNS might make it even easier to speak up.

That's right. Also, compared to the past, vegetables and other foods can be eaten anytime, 365 days a year, so it has become harder for consumers to realize the value of food and the difficulty of production. And the distribution side hates being complained to, so they keep items lined up at all times. There are parts where loss occurs because of that.

In that sense, it is also necessary to properly know about the food production sites. I think it's important not just to talk about food education, but also to have education and awareness activities where people experience or observe various producers.

In Europe and other places, it is the young people who are actively tackling the issue of food loss. Members in their 20s, such as university students, are actively doing things like "Disco Soup," where everyone listens to music while making soup out of leftover food and giving it to passersby.

Fashion is the same. While young designers create their own collection lines, they are also creating recycling lines. Young people definitely have a higher sensitivity toward ethical issues.

They have grown up being told about "environmental issues" since they were born. My son is the same, but people in their teens are very conscious.

My company has a business that turns leftover food into fermented feed, and young people come to visit the factory. University students were visiting today as well. Talking to them, it's not an era where they just want to become rich.

For example, I feel there are many young people who find meaning in things like being interested in a certain social issue and wanting to solve it.

They have a high awareness of "protecting our one and only Earth." I learned recently that junior high school students today normally learn about things like "sustainability" and "sustainable" in their civics classes and get to know the SDGs.

That's wonderful.

That is important. Actually, I think parents often study something because their children told them to, rather than studying it themselves (laughs).

High school students come to our factory every week by bus on school trips. Instead of going to Kyoto or Nara, they come all the way from the Tohoku region to our factory in Sagamihara, tour the factory in the morning, and then go back to their hotel to do a workshop where they split into consumer teams and food factory teams to figure out how to solve problems.

It seems that high school students today are more interested in social issues than in temples. I think things will head in a good direction as such young people enter society in the future.

I was having a conversation with a company president before coming here today, and when you look at the words of any company's founding philosophy, it says they didn't create the company just to make money, but to "solve some kind of social issue."

So, solving social issues must absolutely be there as a purpose. However, as they continue the company, that part fades and making money becomes the priority. Since that is the starting point, I think young people are thinking with purer eyes.

We hire new graduates every year, and our turnover rate is zero.

The work itself involves things like single-mindedly sorting food waste, and it's a fairly poor work environment, but at morning assemblies and employee meetings, I always talk about how much the initiatives they are doing contribute to society and how the world's systems are changing because of these things, so they seem to work with a sense of purpose.

It's said there's a labor shortage now, but people who want to work for us come constantly, so we've never spent money on advertising for recruitment. And no one quits. I believe that's because we are sending out information that we intend to do this part in order to create a sustainable society in the future.

I see. That's amazing.

Originally, I had no awareness of the term SDGs at all. However, "sustainable society" has been talked about ever since I was a student, and it's just that the UN adopted it in 2015, so I think there are many people who have always felt that "it will be difficult from now on unless we make the world sustainable."

The SDGs "visualized" that.

Ms. Tominaga, around when did you learn about the term SDGs?

Actually, it was when I met Ms. Okamura, so it's quite recent.

Luxury brands make things correctly using traditional methods so that the livelihoods of craftsmen can be sustained, so the prices inevitably become high.

And they make things so as not to waste them, and use them carefully. They are things with dreams. I learned that people in fashion are also evolving to meet modern needs, and I thought Ms. Tominaga would be a perfect fit as an ambassador.

Did it coincide with what you had been doing until then?

Yes. Even within the fashion industry, "ethical" movements started appearing here and there from around the 90s, and Yoshiko Ikoma, who is the president of my agency and a fashion journalist, has been sending out messages in her magazine for about 10 years.

JOICFP, an international cooperation NGO for which I serve as another ambassador, is an organization that protects expectant mothers in developing countries like those in Africa. They have been active since around 2010, and I was starting to notice various things.

Until around 2010, I was constantly traveling for collections in New York, Milan, and Paris, and sometimes animal rights activists would hold up placards saying "NO FUR!" and run onto the runway naked. Issues about not using fur or animal slaughter were already being talked about back then.

At the time, I wondered "Why go that far at a fashion event?", but soon after, various activities began, and I felt that the times were moving in an ethical direction.

At the time, it might have been perceived as the actions of only a few people doing something intentionally radical. However, food loss reduction and ethical fashion are very important for ordinary people as well, so rather than a way that conflicts with society, if we move little by little in a more correct direction starting from what we can do now, that is ultimately the most certain way, isn't it?

I think we've reached an era where we have to do that. Consumers are also starting to understand that quite well.

So, it's just a matter of how to choose those "correct" products.

I think there are various ways. For example, I think it's fine to buy something a bit expensive and, in exchange, properly repair it even if it frays and keep wearing it.

Also, for example, this business card holder was made in Africa using the hides of animals used for meat. I think things like this use a lot of CO2 when transported to Japan, but on the other hand, they protect the lives of people in developing countries and are made without unnecessary slaughter.

Alternatively, in certain regions within Japan, there are places that make things "correctly" while practicing sustainable raw material use and management, such as using local materials, reducing waste, or using leather scraps. Therefore, I think the answer is not just one, but that there are various ways.

I agree. Even if you don't know that background, loving one item for a long time is more sustainable than constantly buying cheap things.

A towel manufacturer called Hotman apparently created a towel that can be used for 30 years because they wanted to deliver their products directly to consumers, as the fibers they produced were being processed and sold in ways they weren't happy with. I heard that wholesalers told them repeatedly, "You won't be able to sell many that way," but it is a very good towel made of 100% fair trade cotton.

That company's sales are growing significantly. Even without advertising, word of mouth spreads, with people around them acting as voluntary salespeople, saying, "This is amazing. It's a towel that really lasts 30 years." Because of that, orders keep coming in, and there are apparently companies that buy 10 million yen worth of towels.

Because it is fair trade, they have sustainable production on-site and a stable supply of raw materials. They make towels without using any chemicals, which is very good for the skin, so it seems they are also excellent for people with allergies.

The trend of consumer-oriented management and ethical consumption is for consumers to buy products and services created by such companies at prices they are satisfied with. Consumers can buy because there are companies that make good things. Companies grow because consumers support and buy from them.

I imagine many corporate executives read "Mita-hyoron (official monthly journal published by Keio University Press)," and I have great expectations for Japanese companies. I think the technological capabilities of Japanese companies are truly wonderful.

I agree.

Making it possible to do things that haven't been done before is exactly what innovation is, and I believe that becomes a business.

The SDGs are goals agreed upon by the entire world, so everyone should be heading in that direction. If that's the case, a world should come where being able to do something new makes it sellable. Conversely, if that doesn't happen, the Earth will cease to exist.

That way of thinking is very important for the SDGs. Since the Industrial Revolution, the world has prioritized GDP and the economy, which has created various distortions. I think the underlying idea of the SDGs is to "do something about that."

I feel that unless we move away from mass production and mass consumption, and move toward a direction where everyone creates good things in a win-win manner and everyone uses them, things will become difficult for the Earth.

That's true. I think this is especially common in the apparel industry, but as price competition intensified, it became commonplace to build cheap factories overseas, produce in large quantities with low wages, and sell cheaply. However, on the other hand, Japanese companies have wonderful technology as mentioned earlier; major brands like Hermès use Japanese knit factories or denim from Okayama.

Japan has that kind of manufacturing technology. I think it would be good to return slightly to a model where Japanese brands sell things made in Japanese factories, rather than having factories abroad. We should practice local production for local consumption in apparel as well. In fact, some young designers are doing just that—creating brands through local production for local consumption by dealing directly with factories without going through wholesalers, delivering products to consumers while reducing costs as much as possible.

I feel that if we rethink the nature of companies and brands to be "Japanese things in Japan," it would be a wonderful thing.

I think regional revitalization can also be achieved within that framework.

This is a light-powered watch made by a Japanese company, and it can store energy not just from sunlight but also from LEDs.

Japanese corporate technology has made it this thin, and the strap is made of Nishijin-ori, a traditional Japanese craft. Furthermore, they are thorough about not discharging chemical agents when washing during the manufacturing process.

So it's good for both the body and the environment.

I pushed myself a bit to buy it, but I can just refrain from buying other things.

Lifestyles won't all change at once. However, even if you are conscious just once out of ten times you shop, things should change. If you like chocolate and realize that this cacao was picked by African children who aren't going to school, I think you should choose a different product.

As long as each consumer chooses responsibly, I think there can be many different methods. And if Ms. Tominaga tweets that she is "doing this kind of thing," many people will think, "Oh, I see" (laughs).

That's right. Rather than us doing it, if Ms. Tominaga does it, people will think, "That's cool."

I hope corporate executives will think about lifestyle itself with an attitude of creating a more sustainable society. We also need a platform where various options are presented and can be understood.

At the very least, we want to make decisions we are satisfied with based on correct information from what we can understand.

I don't want to engage in irresponsible consumption. Right now, that kind of information isn't very visible, is it?

On the other hand, there's also the aspect that information is overflowing. There's a flood of various POP displays, marks, and labels, and I think it can be hard to judge which ones are truly meaningful.

I only understood the meaning of the "Yuton" label for the first time after hearing about it from Mr. Takahashi the other day.

What is Yuton?

The Odakyu Group sells pork from pigs raised on "eco-feed"—surplus food turned into feed while ensuring safety and quality—under the name "Yuton."

Sometimes I buy it thinking it might mean "superior" (yuu), but I do wish it were a bit easier to understand.

I think some organization is necessary.

I think it would be fine to just put the SDG mark on it.

A law was passed regarding food loss, so won't we be able to do various things from now on?

That's right. We want to create a "recycling loop" system where food waste that inevitably occurs is composted or turned into feed, and the vegetables, rice, and pork raised from that are used to create a highly sustainable society. If possible, I'd like to unify the marks so that by having consumers choose such products, we can contribute to a sustainable society.

For example, even for restaurants, it would be good if there were something like a Food Loss Reduction Michelin, so we could know which delicious restaurants are contributing to food loss reduction.

That's a great idea (laughs).

Nowadays, even though it costs about 3,000 to 5,000 yen to go out to eat, the restaurant industry where you can eat proper food is growing significantly. Chefs at those restaurants have told me that eco-feed pork is excellent, and they have started using it.

On the other hand, in the grading of pork at supermarkets, "high-quality" meat is defined by how easy it is to slice, how good it looks, and how high the yield is.

What is yield?

In short, it's how much meat you can get. If there's a lot of fat, you can't get much meat, so that's called a poor yield. But the safety, healthiness, and taste that consumers are looking for aren't reflected in the grading at all.

So it's not based on the consumer's criteria.

The grading is from the perspective of what is easy to distribute and sell. Farmers often say, "I really want people to eat this, but wholesalers won't buy it, so we end up eating it ourselves." This happens frequently not just with pork, but also with vegetables and fruit. In that sense, I think there is room for improvement in how information is presented.

Ms. Tominaga, do you have your own criteria when buying food or choosing clothes?

Regarding food, I basically choose pesticide-free items. Also, I've stopped buying things just because they are cheap.

So you buy proper things from proper places.

Yes. Also, I always look at the ingredient list on the back.

In the case of women, doesn't almost everyone look at the back?

My wife is slow when we go together. She stares at it intently (laughs).

Exactly. It takes time.

I've made it a point to go for my studies since coming to the Consumer Affairs Agency, but I don't buy much food at supermarkets. You can check things yourself if they are sold on the internet.

Supermarkets are increasingly trending toward "cheap and nasty," and it's becoming a situation where people think it's cheaper and better to import beef or pork from overseas. I hear there's a movement among Japanese producers to stop wholesaling to supermarkets.

With the internet society, more people are buying directly.

That's right. Because they want people to buy good things directly, there's a movement to sell online themselves or create direct sales offices.

In that case, there's also the possibility of reducing the CO2 emitted during distribution in between.

Yes. So, if consumers buy directly from producers, it's more profitable for the producers, and consumers can get good, recognizable products at a reasonable price. I think that's the direction things will take from now on.

I also mainly order food over the internet. I go to the supermarket for things I'm missing there.

Working women sometimes want to check things in the middle of the night. The younger generation often has to balance work and other things, so they can't easily go to the supermarket in the evening.

So it's already linked to women's social advancement.

The SDGs have various goals, so there are contradictions, but I want to do what I can, and it's good for us consumers that more business operators like Mr. Takahashi are increasing their activities throughout Japan.

Both consumers and companies are starting to realize that over-consuming now, even to the point of pushing the burden onto future generations, is not right in the long run. In fashion too, I want to be able to buy things that are made correctly so that people can wear them with a good conscience.

That's true. I've also started to care a lot about clothes recently. But then, I conversely become unsure of which ones to choose.

There are a few sites that collect brands engaged in ethical activities or sites created by stylists, but it feels like they haven't quite taken root yet.

There are also organizations working to make sustainable labels better known.

Also, it would be good if things like "this company is making these efforts" were more visible. Right now, it's just briefly mentioned at the back of corporate reports. For example, it would be easy to understand if there were three-star or two-star sustainable ratings for companies.

Nowadays, there are even suits made from plastic bottles.

It will take time until they reach affordable prices, so I hope that companies and we adults who bear responsibility for the next generation can work hard to create good things and communicate that.

Right now, to reduce plastic waste, the industry has started moving by declaring that they will eliminate PET bottles by a certain point in the 2030s.

Even if it can't be done immediately, declaring "we will do this by such-and-such time" is very important. I think we will gradually come to understand that if it can't be done, it might be because of the system or because the market hasn't been established yet.

I feel that the level of seriousness among companies has changed compared to before. There are industries and companies that are actively disclosing that they are doing things that are good for the environment, attracting investment money through ESG investment, and trying to communicate that to consumers, so I hope this spreads further.

Japan is still not very good at communicating its message. Last year at a UN conference, the actress Michelle Yeoh, who was a Bond girl from Malaysia, gave a speech about ethical fashion, and her presentation was excellent.

I think it's very important for Japan to send out that kind of message as well. There are quite a few places doing good activities.

However, just because it's a global world, I'm not thinking about going overseas at all. Even if I don't think that way, my company gets emails from all over the world every day now.

We are a small company with 20 or 30 employees, but we get messages like "we received a contact from Trinidad and Tobago yesterday" or "it came from Peru" almost every day, and Google Translate is incredibly active (laughs).

I think we live in a world where as long as you communicate information saying "we are doing sustainable things," people will access you from all over, so I think it's important to express things without hiding anything. Since there are many modest people in Japan, I think we need to instill the idea that communicating information is important for society.

Now that a law for food loss reduction has been established, what are the targets for the Consumer Affairs Agency's future actions?

Regarding household waste, we have a network that covers all municipalities and prefectures nationwide, so we hope to convey awareness. Through various experiments, we've also found that simply measuring waste can reduce loss by about 20%.

Regarding the business sector, for example, we've found that there are almost no consumers who demand that food always be perfectly lined up at a restaurant buffet, so I think that's an area to focus on.

Currently, various media outlets are covering food loss, so consumers see footage of food being thrown away in large quantities and think it's a "waste." But conversely, they only think of it as a "waste." In reality, that food waste is being burned in incinerators using our tax money. Currently, the country spends 2 trillion yen annually on waste disposal costs.

Paper, glass bottles, and cans are recycled, so 40% to 50% of what is burned in incinerators is food. This means we are spending 800 billion to 1 trillion yen of our tax money to burn it. This is in a country with a food self-sufficiency rate of only 38%. Consumers need to be made aware of this as well.

Furthermore, municipal incinerators burn not only household waste but also waste from hotels, restaurants, and supermarkets. Most general citizens don't know this either.

It's necessary for people to know these things and change their consumption behavior or communicate with the distribution side as their own problem.

This morning, I spoke with the Dutch Minister of the Environment at a symposium in Mita, and reducing food loss is a win-win for everyone. There's nothing bad about it. You save money. Conversely, it becomes a question of "why aren't we doing it?" If we just change the system a little, it's a story where everyone benefits.

I think that regarding household food waste, people probably don't understand what constitutes food loss. Even for myself, there are parts where I don't know how food loss is being generated from my home.

When I cook normally, I basically try not to peel the skins. That's why I insist on high-quality vegetables, but I started caring about that after my child was born.

That is the most correct way. Most foods have nutrients in the skin and leaves.

Is that so? I've been working hard to peel the skins, thinking it was a hassle.

It's a waste to throw away the skins, so I'm currently talking to chefs and cooking school teachers to see if they can create and propose menus that use the skins more.

It's nice when your knowledge increases through pleasant topics. Rather than being stoic about it, I think it's good if people can just do what they notice and enjoy their daily lives. If such consumers increase, both sellers and producers will start to think about it.

But I think men of our generation didn't really learn about those things in home economics classes, so they lack the knowledge.

When we conduct surveys about ethical products, men in their 40s and 50s have the least knowledge. For example, when choosing something good for the environment, young people—both men and women—answer that they would definitely buy the ethical one if the price is the same. But men in their 40s and 50s are not like that.

Men of that age group don't really do the shopping in the first place. But I'm the opposite. My wife is a hard-working career woman, so I do all the shopping and cooking. That's why I go to the supermarket and shop all the time.

Many of my friends are actually "stay-at-home dads." I think the world is changing little by little recently. At the nursery school, 80% of the people coming to drop off their children were fathers.

Society changes that way. So, there's no doubt that common goals will head in a more sustainable direction.

Also, as a consumer voice, what I want to say is about the plastic plates for meat. Don't we not need those?

We don't need them.

They just increase waste.

They are very much in the way and bulky. So, I always buy from places that sell them in just bags. That's a little cheaper, too.

Ideally, it would be better to have a system where things are sold by weight, put into one large container, and brought home, which would reduce waste and allow people to take only the amount they need. I tell that to people at supermarkets, but it's hard to realize.

There are shops in shopping districts where you can bring a plate and say, "Give it to me here."

I think that's much better.

I definitely want consumers to say that to the shops. Even at supermarkets, if you talk to the people cutting meat in the back, they are happy to do various things for you. If you say, "Don't you have more meat like this?" they are happy to cut it. The people on the front lines also want to be spoken to.

We should just break down the walls a bit more.

Those kinds of shops are high-end in New York and Paris, too. It's like going to a marche and having a conversation.

Europe has marches all over town, doesn't it?

It might be good to revive the culture of shopping districts.

I like shopping districts. You can become friends and talk about various things. It takes time, but it's a very good culture.

I think various challenges have come up in today's discussion, and we've also seen what needs to be done in the future.

The Consumer Affairs Agency is a new government office created for people's lives, rather than the traditional vertically-segmented administration. Consumer movements have existed for a long time, but in the future, ordinary people should think about consumption for their ordinary lives. Japanese society itself has changed.

True value, not price or appearance, is becoming important. I think "right consumption," where we want to use money responsibly, is becoming important.

That's right. I also think right consumption is the basis. Things like "penny wise and pound foolish" are now creating various harmful effects. Consumption behavior based on a proper understanding of the story will be required from now on, and I think we are entering an era where companies that communicate information properly and sell the right things will be chosen.

Yes. I think consumers want that more than people in companies think.

Exactly. I believe companies that anticipate consumer needs, develop products and services, make efforts to reduce environmental impact, and contribute to the realization of a healthy, safe, and prosperous society through their business will be chosen. That is the consumer-oriented management I mentioned earlier.

I see. In the end, it's like "let's do the SDGs properly."

That's right. And I hope young people with such awareness will play a central role in society. We must make the future one where young people can shine. The future of consumption is this sustainable consumption. The future of production also lies in being "sustainable."

I have great expectations for universities as well. Universities can create places where such things can be discussed.

I think being able to discuss things on a flat level is a good point of universities. We also launched a research laboratory called the xSDG Lab last year and created a consortium within it to collaborate with companies and local governments. Using such mechanisms, we want to create good examples and standards for SDG implementation based on research.

I think how to advocate and show the SDGs is very important, so I would like to cooperate in that regard.

We look forward to it. Thank you very much for your time today despite your busy schedules.