[Feature: The Present Form of Regional Migration] Roundtable Discussion: Nurturing Regional Potential and Migrating in Your Own Way

Today, I would like to talk with everyone under the theme of "The Present Tense of Regional Migration." When we say migration, the image of moving might be strong, but living is also a major theme. "Living" means residing in that land and conducting one's livelihood. I believe that people sometimes move in order to be true to themselves.

That being said, when it comes to conducting a livelihood and "living" somewhere, it is actually not that simple and is quite difficult. I believe there are many things that have become visible precisely because you all have taken on challenges in the field. Today, we have gathered people who are involved in creating the future while precisely engaging in trial and error in the field.

Another part of this theme is the "present tense." I believe the essence is always in what is happening in the field, and the future is always happening somewhere right now. Today, I would like to hear about the essence we should be looking at now toward the future.

First, I would like to ask everyone to introduce themselves and talk about their experiences and what they have seen regarding regional migration from a slightly bird's-eye view. First, Mr. Oonami, please.

I was born in 1953 and just turned 68 last month. Young people who come to Kamiyama Town ask me things like, "Are you doing this at your age?" but I have been loosely involved in community development since I was young.

I was born and raised in Kamiyama, Tokushima Prefecture. Since my family business is construction, I made a living through public works. On the other hand, I always felt there might be a way for the town to exist without relying on public works, and I have been doing this while carrying that self-contradiction. For the past few years, work has taken up 5% of my time, and I feel like I'm spending 95% of my time on the community development I want to do.

I lived in Silicon Valley for two years starting in 1977. At that time, the automobile industry was doing very well and it was said that Japan had the advantage, but during that period, the foundation for the current computer age was spreading. I think being exposed to that atmosphere where something was about to happen was significant for me.

It sounds like a premonition of the future.

And when I returned from there, while working in my family business in Kamiyama, I became involved in community development through the youth division of the Chamber of Commerce and Industry. I wanted to create a place where artists were always in the town, so I started an art program in 1999. Thus, artist migrants began to be born in the town.

Then, not just artists, but diverse people such as creators began to come to the town. So, in order to introduce the series of art programs and such, I created a website called "In Kamiyama" in 2008 with a subsidy from the Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications.

Kamiyama was not originally a place with many jobs. Since NPO Green Valley operates privately, we cannot create jobs using a budget. However, when we started a program called "Work in Residence" to have people with jobs migrate here, small entrepreneurs began to gather.

Eventually, people like Chikahiro Terada (Keio University alumni) of Sansan began visiting the town from September 2010, and thinking it looked interesting, they decided to set up an office in this town. The movement to establish satellite offices began, and it became a place where designers, creators, and entrepreneurs come and go.

In the midst of this, while discussing how to build the town's future, the Kamiyama Town Regional Revitalization Comprehensive Strategy was compiled, based on the idea that it is essential to remain a "town where possibility can be felt." Furthermore, since June 2019, volunteer entrepreneurs led by President Terada have been working hard to prepare for the creation of a next-generation Kosen (College of Technology).

I would like to hear more about the Kosen story later.

Yes. Kamiyama has set "Creative Depopulation" as the theme of its migration policy. Since Japan's total population has been decreasing since 2008, it would be impossible to stop population decline in a place like Kamiyama where the population has been flowing out for a long time. If that's the case, the idea is to change the content of the population rather than chasing numbers.

That has gradually shown effects, and in 2019 and 2020 consecutively, the population of Kamiyama Town saw a social increase. The population is still decreasing, but achieving a social increase means that, as a result, the ratio of young people is rising.

By making Kamiyama a field where new things happen one after another, people feel the possibility that they might be able to achieve their goals in this place, and more people gather. By repeating this, I hope to show that population isn't just about numbers, and I continue my daily activities thinking this will lead to possibilities in various other places as well.

I'm sure there were many twists and turns. Next, Ms. Otsu, please.

I am the complete opposite of Mr. Oonami; I came to a land I had no connection to in the position of a bride.

It has been 19 years of ups and downs, but I came to a depopulated village as a bride, gave birth to four children, and am contributing to preventing the declining birthrate. Actually, my father, who is also a Keio University alumni, migrated here and increased the village population, which is something I can be proud of. Not just family, but 17 couples have migrated to Aso relying on us over these 18 years. When you include their marriages and births, it totals 35 people.

But that isn't the goal; "protecting the rural landscape by continuing agriculture" is our life's work. So it may look like we are doing many things, but the base is always agriculture. My husband, who was my classmate at SFC, and I practice organic farming with no or reduced pesticides in rice paddies passed down through generations, and we live as full-time farmers by delivering to people nationwide through direct sales.

For me, the trigger for migration was very simple: the person I fell in love with at first sight during my student days was from here (laughs). And since he said he would return to his hometown someday, I thought it would be better to go while young rather than when old, and I wanted to raise children in a nature-rich environment, so I came to my loved one's birthplace for that reason alone.

Agriculture is certainly not easy. However, I am glad I chose agriculture. With agriculture as a base, there are really so many things you can do, and I did them one after another as I thought of them. Urban-rural exchange, challenges with processed goods, international exchange, and so on. I made many mistakes. I also suffered from the sense of stagnation in the region while trying to do something innovative.

The situation changed significantly when I participated in activities aiming for Globally Important Agricultural Heritage Systems (GIAHS) status. I worked with the governor and others to promote Aso, and it was successfully designated.

My desire to "protect the value of Aso recognized by the world" grew even stronger, and I put effort into messaging themed around biodiversity, landscape conservation, and agriculture in a sustainable society. Media exposure increased, and when I became a bit of a "nail that sticks out," strange rumors were spread and people tried to pull me down, which made me slightly distrustful of people. However, when I immersed myself in farm work, I was saved by the healing power of agriculture.

After that, I switched my mindset and ideas, and rather than throwing a stone at rural society as a whole, I started moving to do what I could on our own farm in the first year of Reiwa. It was our 20th wedding anniversary. While protecting the fields and forests known as Japan's original landscape—the so-called "Satoyama"—we have begun working to create new value and significance for agriculture and rural villages, aiming for 100% renewable energy.

Next, Mr. Nakamura, please.

I joined a company called Recruit as a new graduate in 2006 and have consistently worked on initiating organizational transformation within the company. I have been taking on challenges while creating organizations and jobs myself roughly every three or four years.

The trigger for my migration to Iki, Nagasaki, was about three years ago when I was looking for a new work theme. I visited Iki City, Nagasaki Prefecture, partly for work, just as it had received designation as an SDGs Future City and was embarking on various demonstration experiments.

I was moved to find such a local government, and actually, my hobby is fishing. For fishing enthusiasts, Iki is like a sacred place, so I thought it would be great if I could live here (laughs). As I proceeded with talks about the city's future and challenges, the city's population of 26,000 clicked with me. At the time, the number of employees in Recruit's domestic business, which I viewed as the target for organizational development centered on engagement, was also 26,000. This meant that if I thought of the citizens as one organization, I might be able to develop citizen engagement. That was the first time I connected migration and work in my mind.

After a preparation period, I launched a new organization to be the base of my work within the HR department and went to Iki City, Nagasaki, as part of my work for Recruit. When I went to consult with Professor Tamamura, he told me about the "Regional Revitalization Entrepreneur System," and using that framework, I received the title of an Iki City Hall official while also working as a Recruit employee.

Furthermore, while paying taxes to Iki City, I wanted to give back my knowledge of organizational development to society, so I co-founded a company called Colere Inc. in Iki with a friend. Currently, about 20 people are involved there as side jobs or pro bono, but everyone participates fully remotely from five time zones around the world. We are running a consulting business in a mysterious way where most people have never met in person.

Additionally, I was asked if I wanted to become a graduate student under Professor Tamamura, and I joined casually, but it's so busy that I'm having a hard time (laughs). In that way, I feel like I'm wearing many hats right now with Iki City, Nagasaki, as the stage.

Thank you for waiting, Mr. Yamanaka, please.

After leaving SFC in 2008, I joined Mitsui Fudosan. I was a developer for a long time, involved in shopping center development and flying all over the country, but at one point, I started thinking that Japan didn't need any more shopping centers.

That said, I wasn't interested in building shopping centers in Asia. So, I wanted to be involved in a business that could show the next image of society from Japan, a front-runner in global challenges, and I wanted to create the maximum value I could for society. While I was job hunting after leaving Mitsui Fudosan, through a connection with Professor Masaru Tomita, I was introduced to Spiber, a company in Tsuruoka that makes artificial spider silk.

When I first came to Shonai, Yamagata, without knowing anything, the air was so clean that I thought, "This is it" (laughs). I migrated on intuition without a deep understanding of what Spiber did, but both Professor Tomita and Spiber's president, Kazuhide Sekiyama, were dedicated to creating world-class innovation from a regional area. I was inspired by their action, felt that I could challenge myself from zero in this place, and that's how my migration began.

I was only at Spiber for two months before I suddenly ended up starting a company called Yamagata Design. Keio's IAB (Institute for Advanced Biosciences) is located in the middle of rice paddies in a place called "Tsuruoka Science Park," and I started by developing undeveloped land that was difficult to touch as administrative resources shrank, through private-sector leadership.

Now, my company aims to create a future that excites the next generation by designing businesses that solve problems as a regional community development company. We have raised 3.4 billion yen in equity capital across the group, and with hybrid funding—half regional money and half from outside—we are working on eight businesses in four categories: tourism, education, human resources, and agriculture.

It was also featured on NHK national news, but most recently, we are promoting the development of an automatic weed suppression robot for rice paddies that I would love for Ms. Otsu to use, and in other agricultural businesses, we are working on production and human resource development.

Our most famous business is a hotel called "Suiden Terrasse," but I personally have no desire to become a hotelier; I have a strong desire to solve problems through business. I'm enjoying doing various businesses while thinking I want to show up the commentators of my parents' generation who say Japan's future is dark.

As you all mentioned, I believe that in regional areas, there isn't a "boring future," but rather many "signs of an exciting future." Also, challenges are things you can take on, and it's only by taking them on that you can do interesting things. Energy comes out of that, and you are there because of that fun. If you don't feel that, you end up thinking the regional areas are some kind of difficult world. I felt once again that today's premise is a bit different.

Mr. Yamanaka's place also does childcare support, right? Since young people come and have children, I think focusing on childcare is very significant.

With the understanding of regional shareholders, we built a children's educational facility called "Kids Dome SORAI." It functions as a children's hall, after-school care, and a nursery school. For the after-school care, children come from 12 out of the 15 elementary schools in Tsuruoka City.

What I always think is that originally, the administration should spend money on the younger generation, but currently, administrative financial resources are rigid. Because they have to put money into immediate medical and welfare systems, the money going to the younger generation tends to be cut. When it comes to attractive community development for the younger generation, I think there are limits to administrative functions, so I'm wondering if we can channel money into education as a private-sector subsystem to replace that.

In addition to operating the children's hall, after-school care, and nursery school, we launched an electricity business called "SORAI Denki" and are doing a project where all electricity contracts from regional companies are allocated to regional education. There is an inevitable tendency for urban areas with more children to have better educational environments, but even in regional areas, I believe private-sector involvement in enriching the educational environment is a very important issue.

It's interesting that you're not just approaching the issues, but also setting up a mechanism to use the money earned there for further regional issues.

I think such things are regional issues and human relationships that become visible precisely because you have lived there, and by setting up this mechanism within that, you are able to gain a sense of how things actually change.

Actually, what surprised me most when I came here was that regional communities don't get along with each other (laughs). I wondered why they were so divided.

So, living in a regional city, I understood well that while there are good points to a community, there are also difficulties. That's why I think the environment makes it hard for the kind of innovation that Mr. Oonami, Ms. Otsu, and Mr. Nakamura are doing to happen across the region as a whole.

Conversely, I think we need to organize communities so that innovation can be born on the regional side. Whether the leadership for that is taken by the administration or a community-rooted NPO like the one Mr. Oonami runs, there are various ways, but I think just being able to do this would further encourage migration of young people.

I also run a site for recruitment and U-turns/I-turns called "Shonai Zukan" now. People doing a U-turn consult with adults of their parents' or teachers' generation. But the parents speak ill of the region (laughs). So there are quite a few young people who have a sense of distrust toward the region where they grew up.

Then when they return, I see them getting caught in the vortex of the community and becoming disappointed, which I think is very futile. Since the population is decreasing, I think we should look more toward the outside, the front, and the future.

I understand. In joint research with a certain local government, we found that parents influence whether children return. If parents feel no possibility in the region, it affects the children. It's important to be able to feel the possibility in the region's future, in a way that's different from before.

When I think about what I have been doing in Kamiyama, I think it was probably a movement to slightly expand the rural frame or regional frame, because it's very difficult to eliminate them.

What I mean is showing things that are normally impossible in the countryside. For example, even though there are three golf courses within a 15-minute drive, someone might carry their bag, get on a plane, and go on a two-week golf trip to California in the US. At first, the local people said, "Are they fools?"

I think that is the rural frame. There is a frame of how a person living in this region should be, not just for migrants but also for those born and raised there. I myself lived in California in my mid-20s, so I know the air feels great and refreshing. Human relationships are also very dry.

Turning back from that, returning to the community of Kamiyama in the middle of the rainy season felt very cramped. Since I, a local person, felt that way, I felt it must be even more so for people coming from elsewhere. That's why I started expanding that "rural frame."

I do things that people in the countryside say you shouldn't do. At first, the local people perceive it as something foolish, but as it unfolds continuously, it stops being thought of as something so strange. By creating such a situation, as a result, the rural frame expands.

Then what happens is that a space is born where people born and raised there can also stretch their arms and legs within the region. A margin is created. I think a countryside with such a margin can have the best of both worlds: the somewhat close relationships unique to the countryside along with a certain degree of freedom.

As a result, I think people who move in from the outside also feel that this place is a bit different from the usual countryside, with a high degree of freedom, and is flat and open.

I completely agree with what you just said. Recently, the president of a regional company told me, "Since you guys came, my common sense has become completely paralyzed." So I think it's important to paralyze regional common sense in a good way, and I think what Mr. Oonami has been doing is exactly that kind of advanced project.

The things Ms. Otsu has done naturally must have also been changing regional common sense. Common sense exists, so to speak, but it is possible to expand the frame.

Yes. What first surprised the people in the settlement was when the topic of installing streetlights came up, I apparently said, "The darkness at night is the charm. If you put up streetlights, you won't be able to see the stars." At that time, the people around me gave me a look like, "What?" It's a difference in values.

Also, when my third son stopped going to school. Since he was little, I've raised him to "think for yourself because the situation and society ahead will be something no one has experienced," but when he entered school, he was told to do this and do that, so I was prepared for him to stop going at any time. So when he said, "Mom, I don't want to go to school," I felt like, "I thought so," and accepted it, saying, "It's fine not to go, but if you're at home, help with the farming." People around me who had the common sense that children should be made to go to school were quite taken aback.

Returning to the topic of migration, I think it's good not to be too braced for it. Honestly, whether in Japan or overseas, I think it's the same that the more local you go, the more conservative the atmosphere and ties are, but I think it's important to have the casualness of thinking, "If it doesn't feel right, I can just go somewhere else."

When thinking about life security, I feel like asking my friends living in luxury tower apartments, "Are you okay staying there?" Like, what will you do if something happens? In that sense, rather than changing the common sense of rural villages, perhaps the time has come to overturn the common sense of the city—to be conscious of "living" and think about where to reside. I suggest that if you migrate to the countryside, your income might decrease, but a priceless life might be waiting. Of course, there is no single correct answer. But we are no longer in an era where a "good life" only exists in the city. There is also the option of dual-base living.

I see. Certainly, if you brace yourself, you end up thinking about many things, and in the end, common sense is something everyone has individually, and it's different for everyone. I heard that Mr. Nakamura is currently living in Iki while doing HR and organizational development work for Recruit's headquarters, and is also active in the community development council as an associate member of the fishery cooperative and a member of the region. I'm curious why you do those things so naturally.

Well, certainly, I don't think of myself as a very conventional person, but if I were to say why I migrated and why that choice felt natural to me, I think it's because I am simply following the "way of being" I seek, which I realized again around my ninth year as a working professional.

What that is: first is to be "free." Second is to always do "new things," and third is to "do it myself." I realized there is nothing else I want to value besides these three. Now I view those three as my instincts, and I judge what I do solely based on whether I can satisfy them or not.

While I've decided all my work based on that, migration was an option that arose naturally. When people ask, "Why did you migrate?" it's just a matter of following my instincts, and the place I flowed to happened to be Iki.

Of course, I can talk after the fact about why it was Iki or what kind of challenges I find value in there, but to be honest, I think it's just that I'm living the way I want to live, so that was the common sense within me.

In that case, the fact that I "migrated" might appear unconventional to both the people of Iki and many company employees. I think there is also a perspective of from what position and how one evaluates migration.

Those are very frank thoughts. "Continuing to be oneself" and "being natural" are actually quite difficult things. However, by choosing that place and being there, "continuing to be true to yourself" and trying to "continue to be natural" without strain by interacting with the surroundings rather than being selfish will, I believe, lead to expanding the possibilities and frames of that region.

May I ask Mr. Oonami a question? I'm in my late 40s and feel like I'm ready for grandchildren (laughs), but whether in the countryside or the city, old common sense is no longer applying. Because the population is decreasing, and that trend is particularly intense in regional and rural areas, there are situations where the common sense everyone has followed until now cannot be inherited as it is.

Regarding that, as Mr. Nakamura just said, I feel that the younger generation has the value of "going naturally," but I think it's different for the older generation.

I think the value of having continued to protect this landscape is very great, but on the other hand, in a situation where the old common sense no longer applies, what is the perception of people in Mr. Oonami's generation and even older generations?

I personally always operate on the principle that there is no need to force things to continue if they aren't sustainable. For example, there's often this feeling that because participants in a village festival are decreasing and it's becoming unsustainable, we need people to carry the portable shrine, so we ask young people to come.

The requests from the local side for young people to come are quite often along the lines of 'we're short on labor, so please help out.' If you evaluate this in terms of the abilities of those young people, it's a gross undervaluation. Instead, I think it's better to say 'please help' in a way that focuses on what these people are capable of doing.

As Mr. Nakamura said, I think 'naturally' is the best way. What we can do is simply connect people who can look at the countryside with fresh eyes and show them things as they are, allowing certain people to gain their own realizations.

I believe the most important thing for humans is realization. The difficulty with realization is that it's something that wells up from within the person, so it cannot be taught. Therefore, I think it's important to have as many people as possible see the situation of the town, and then gather those who realize that if they don't take action, this might disappear in the future, and expand that circle.

Saying things like 'gather because we're short on shrine carriers' doesn't stick as a motivation, so it absolutely won't last long. It's better to frame it as people gathering with the image of looking at the region as a whole and thinking, 'I feel like this town is lacking this specific thing, so maybe I'm the one who can fill that gap.'

The way the government approaches the issue of migration is also changing significantly now. Previously, the idea was simply to increase the number of permanent residents—essentially wanting to obtain more local allocation tax, which is distributed according to population, so that various projects could be carried out.

Instead, as a result, people who blow through like the wind are also fulfilling various functions. In Kamiyama, starting with Artist-in-Residence, that has turned into work, creators, trainees, and now even startups. We even have a 'Horse-in-Residence,' a residence for horses (laughs).

A 'residence' doesn't mean settling down permanently. For example, people live in Kamiyama for a trial period of about one to six months and try various things. Since migrants are born out of that process, I think the overall retention rate is high.

As a result, people from various genres gather in the town, creating a 'relational population,' and I feel that this has become a driving force for residents to create the next changes together with those people.

That's good. If you only try to protect things, you stop doing anything new. Without various people constantly maintaining 'realization,' you actually can't keep protecting things.

Regional revitalization is often equated with population issues, so the number of people gets all the attention. That is true to an extent, but when the population decreases, it becomes harder to gain realizations. As people decrease, opportunities for doing things together and meeting people decrease. Without various people coming in and providing influence, the region loses diversity and often stops feeling its own potential.

Everyone I am speaking with today has in common that while living in a region, you also have a place of learning close at hand. Mr. Nakamura is currently studying at the SFC graduate school, and it seems Keio students are staying around Mr. Otsu while taking remote classes, and Mr. Otsu himself is a senior researcher at the Keio Research Institute at SFC. Mr. Yamanaka is also creating a place for learning. Mr. Ominami is trying to establish a Kosen (National Institute of Technology) in Kamiyama Town.

Yukichi Fukuzawa established Keio University in 1858. At a turning point in history, when considering what to do for the future, he created a place of learning. He also wrote 'Gakumon no susume (An Encouragement of Learning),' with the idea that through learning, each individual expands what they can do and see, creating the future through independence and self-respect.

Now, while high schools are gradually disappearing in depopulated areas across the world, why is Kamiyama Town trying to establish a new Kosen?

The catalyst was Mr. Terada, the president of Sansan and an SFC alumnus, who set up a satellite office in Kamiyama in October 2010. I heard from Mr. Terada that he aimed to go public within 10 years, and after listing, he wanted to do two businesses: one related to energy and the other related to education.

At the time, I took it as the dream of a young entrepreneur, but at the end of 2015, when we had a meal together in Tokyo, he told me he had visited the International College of Technology in Kanazawa during the day. At that moment, I realized he was serious.

As for why a Kosen, many unique private elementary, junior high, and high schools are being born nationwide now. On the other hand, in Kamiyama, public elementary and junior high schools have only about 20 students per grade. From the local perspective, if such an integrated school were built in Kamiyama and even just two students per grade enrolled, that would represent 10% of the total, making public education difficult to sustain. We felt this wouldn't gain the support of the townspeople. So, while exploring various options, I started thinking a Kosen would be good.

About 80 to 90% of children who graduate from junior high school in Kamiyama go on to general high schools in Tokushima City and leave the town. If that's the case, presenting the option of a new Kosen there expands the career paths for Kamiyama's children, so it's easier to get the town's approval and support from the residents.

On the other hand, the Kosen system was established about 60 years ago. During the era of high economic growth, Japan developed with Kosen graduates taking on roles as factory managers and other important positions in the manufacturing industry to strengthen it. However, as a result of that manufacturing industry moving factories to China and Southeast Asia, human resources in new IT industries and AI have become thin. Yet, the many achievements and successful experiences that Kosen have accumulated have conversely become a hindrance, making it difficult to suddenly pivot in a new direction.

So I thought that if a new Kosen were created with the relatively light footwork of a private institution, it could have an impact on the Japanese education system itself. It's a five-year program with no entrance exams in between, and no distinction between science and humanities at the time of entry. It's like a Kosen that combines an engineering university, an art university, and an MBA. It is scheduled to open in April 2023, a small school of 200 students even with 40 students per grade across all five years.

From there, as an exit, students can go to university, some might start their own businesses, and others will find employment in companies. There has never been an example of a higher education institution being created in a small town with a population of about 5,000. I am convinced that by leading this project to success, we can deliver big dreams and hope not only to Japan but to small towns and villages in remote areas of the world, and I am continuing to fight for it now.

It's called 'Kamiyama Marugoto Kosen' (tentative), a school that views the whole of Kamiyama as a place of learning and operates with the concepts of technology, design, and entrepreneurship training. Students are literally 'in-residence.' I believe that having such a mechanism will actually lead to expanding various 'realizations' and possibilities for the local community.

When trying to practice something in the field, I think it's important to learn as you go—expanding what you can see and looking objectively at what you are feeling. Mr. Nakamura, as someone studying in graduate school, what do you think?

I had a period of one year after moving before entering graduate school, and I think that was a time for me to output what I had cultivated within the company Recruit.

On the other hand, although I've only been a graduate student for about two months, my view of the place where I am is changing rapidly through new learning. For example, as I gain perspectives on how the relationships between the three elements that constitute society—government, market, and community—have changed historically and what they will become in the future, the region I've seen over the past year looks like a different field for activity and challenges.

I was originally doing organizational development as a person from a private company within market principles, but currently, in addition to that, I live with four personas or positions: graduate student, civil servant, and member of the local community.

The fusion of things that were previously separate is actually happening within me, and I believe that learning may bring about a paradigm shift in a new way of being and working as an individual, as well as the way regions exist and how to change them.

In this day and age, in graduate schools and such, you can gain a synergistic effect between learning at university and living on-site, continuing research and challenges while having the actual sensations of the field right in front of you. At SFC, there is a framework called 'Regional Revitalization Researcher' where students are appointed by partner municipalities to live there while studying at the Graduate School of Media and Governance.

I imagine the number of Recruit employees moving to rural or suburban areas is increasing now. From a corporate perspective, how is the fact that employees are starting to live in rural areas viewed?

In the short term, it's a story where many new management issues arise, from labor to communication, so while they feel it can't be stopped, I think they view it as a difficult situation.

However, in the long term, in terms of how a company is evaluated by the labor market regarding why that company should exist, it won't be 'for the sake of the country' as before, but rather that they exist for the local, or for the 'country' as a collection of locals. I believe the meaning of the contact point between individuals and the local will become larger for companies, becoming a contact point that establishes their raison d'être.

There are signs of people living in rural areas while working for companies in large cities. I think this is not just because of COVID-19, but that it's becoming a time to reconsider the nature of corporations in the first place. Mr. Yamanaka, what do you think?

When I think about why I moved to a rural area, started a business, and am working on town planning, it's because I'm happy doing it now.

The happy life I envision is the coexistence of the idea that life is for oneself and living for the sake of something else. I think the ultimate form of being for oneself is being for the sake of something. When you realize this paradox, life is very happy. I think the phrase 'Learn selfishly, realize altruistically' from 'Kamiyama Marugoto Kosen' is wonderful because it captures this exact way of thinking.

In the SORAI education we are doing now, we say 'The protagonist is yourself, the strategy is your mission,' but we add 'The tactic is madness.' This phrase conveys that it's important to be absorbed in something in life.

'Kids Dome SORAI' provides individualistic education, and the hook for that is to have them thoroughly accumulate experiences of being absorbed. If you think 'I'm going to do this,' you just believe in doing it. I believe this is very necessary for living a happy life.

So it's the importance of being able to get absorbed in something. In the end, the meaning of living might be the same, but it's about whether you can truly get absorbed. Conversely, there are many things that aren't interesting unless you are.

Thinking about diverse perspectives, I'd like to speak from the perspective of being a mother and the only woman here.

I think it will be extremely important for adults to continue learning in the future. Since we are facing a society that no one has experienced before, what we learned in university can't possibly continue to be valid forever; adults must keep learning too.

I have also become a senior researcher at the Keio Research Institute at SFC and aim to enter a Doctoral Program next April. My goal is to write a doctoral dissertation by the age of 50. Both my husband and I studied landscape, and we are practicing what we learned through land-use (rice paddies and fields) agriculture. Since we have been continuing biological and landscape surveys, I want to turn that into a paper to mark 20 years of farming.

I believe that hints for a sustainable society ultimately exist only in the natural world. Of course, there are technological innovations and such, but I feel the hints for what choices are necessary in the future to protect the land and our lives while coexisting with nature in the island nation of Japan, and how to reproduce and connect to the next generation, lie in the natural world.

Not just in rural areas, adults must continue learning to challenge what they can do, and as a mother, I want to be in a position where I can firmly say to children who see that, 'Are you really going to leave such a great place?'

There are parts of home education that school education can never compensate for, and it is mothers who bear a large part of home education. I hope for a society where mothers, based on a value system of 'giving children the power to survive' rather than values influenced by deviation scores, can be in rural areas at least while their children are small.

I am raising my children in an ideal environment where 'nature is for when children are small,' and I have the confidence to get by even if my income is half of what it was in the city, but there is also the reality that it costs money as children grow.

Therefore, I want 'having lived in a rural area' to become a career path. In other words, if you move to a rural area, spot the resources there, and continue a life of working with local people while being resourceful for 10 years, you should have gained considerable management ability and various ideas.

Wouldn't it be interesting if someone could be headhunted for their experience in rural living, and when the time comes that their children need money or options, they could return to the city with their whole family instead of just the individual moving for work? I hope for a society where people can do business or learning that utilizes the hints they found in rural areas.

That's exactly right. Looking at SFC students, those who have actively worked in the field in rural areas and properly engaged with local people are the real deal; even at university, they influence those around them and naturally produce results. I believe we are in an era where having nurtured rich experiences by having passion, working seriously, and involving others in local fields is valued in AO exams and the like.

Thoroughly carrying out essential things has meaning. That's not limited to 'because it's a rural area,' but in a good region like Kamiyama, where various people influence each other and can increase people's realizations, the fact that a person has grown up in that environment is extremely valuable.

When it comes to government migration support, one thing you almost always hear from the local side is the voice asking, 'Why are only migrants given preferential treatment?' There is dissatisfaction regarding subsidies and such that they themselves are not eligible for.

For example, people of my generation in Kamiyama, around 70 years old, were told by our parents' generation that while depopulation was gradually progressing, a eldest son alone could probably make a living, so come back—and at least the eldest sons did come back.

However, human resources about 15 years younger than me, around 50 years old, are now scarce in rural areas. In an era when their parents' generation was highly educated, they were told that there was no longer hope in the countryside even if they returned, so they should go to a good university and find new possibilities in the city—it was a time when the U-turn option was removed.

Currently, people in their 30s and 40s are entering the town in the form of migration or relational population. And they are digging up various possibilities in places where many people in the town thought there were none. Ultimately, I think these movements will spread to those born in the town, and people who have found new possibilities will U-turn back. However, I feel that within this large cycle, only the part where money and funds are concentratedly invested in migrants is being singled out, leading to the talk of migrants being favored while the locals get nothing.

On the other hand, some people in their late 70s have started to gain realizations, saying, 'Kamiyama has changed recently, and I'm looking forward to seeing how it changes in the future. If there's anything I can do, please let me know.' This is the first time in nearly 30 years of activity that I've seen such people in the last four or five years.

After all, we shouldn't stick to the old way of thinking that the countryside should be protected only by people from the countryside; people who are interested should also join in. I think migration is one form of that. I feel it's important to move in a direction where residents and migrants approach each other to build a flexibly changing society together.

I thought the greatest common denominator of today's talk was that migration isn't something you necessarily have to do; it's something we do because we like it. I get many questions every day like 'How is migration?' or 'What kind of life is there over there?' but the more those questions pile up, the more the feeling grows in my heart that perhaps I simply migrated as a result of being honest about designing my own life or living my own life.

It's fine to do that while living in a city, but listening to everyone's stories, I felt it's good to have the sense that migration might just be one of the catalysts for reconsidering the importance of living the way you want to be.

When I was working in my previous job, I was always bothered by whether this was a life true to myself. At the time, my eldest daughter had been born, and the deciding factor for moving was that I wanted to be able to talk about my life to my child with pride.

To be able to say that, it's very important that I decide the value criteria for happiness myself. When I thought selfishly about wanting to live true to myself, I thought I could do exciting work while cherishing time with family and friends in the rich natural environment of a rural area. I now understand that rural areas have the potential to fulfill such selfish desires.

I think there are quite a few people wondering if it's okay to change their current life, but once you dive in, it often turns out to be no big deal. I think you should just decide selfishly how you want to be. I truly believe that if you move to a rural area, a new path will surely open up. I would be happy if our discussion helps push someone like that forward.

Thank you all very much. Thanks to you, this has been a very suggestive roundtable discussion. When we talk about a population-declining society, it tends to be about the number of people, but things like 'difficulty in feeling potential' and 'decrease in realizations' are likely to occur. In that context, I think migration, where people live and have livelihoods in a region while maintaining their own standards, has meaning.

Yukichi Fukuzawa translated the word 'society' as 'jinkan kosai (society).' The essence of society is the connections and interactions between people.

We tend to think that the more local a society is, the thicker the human connections and the harder it is to move, but by influencing each other within those thick connections, both local people and migrants can increase various realizations and possibilities. By living there, you naturally notice things, and your own potential becomes more and more visible. And then you influence each other further. A society with such a virtuous cycle attracts even more people. I was reminded once again of the importance of a society where people influence each other and there is a chain of connections.

Thank you very much for today.