The Secrets of Tidying Up

I was in charge of product lineup development at Ryohin Keikaku, which operates MUJI. After graduating from the Faculty of Business and Commerce, I joined Seiyu, and at age 30, I moved from a store-based role to product development at the headquarters. There, I was tasked with creating private brands, which led to my involvement in the development of MUJI products.

Later, when Ryohin Keikaku was established, I was seconded and eventually transferred to become a full employee of Ryohin Keikaku. I experienced the launch of MUJI and was involved in the development of non-apparel items until my retirement.

MUJI products are staples in storage. You have been involved in making those products for many years.

That's right. Now that I am 70, I am mentoring the next generation in the Household Goods Division. I am not in a position to give advice on tidying up like the two of you, but I was involved in the development of various household goods.

After graduating with a major in psychology from the Faculty of Letters, I worked at a company and then resigned when I got married. I was part of the first generation under the Equal Employment Opportunity Act, an era when many women still quit their jobs upon marriage. I have always liked tidying up, and having more time at home gave me the chance to enjoy thinking about storage even more. After being a full-time homemaker, I started a job I could do while raising children a few years later.

The trigger for becoming a tidying advisor was about 15 years ago when a fellow mother asked for my advice. Knowing my love for tidying, she said, "It's messy and embarrassing, but could you take a look at my house?" She always seemed like a tidy person, but she was deeply troubled by her son's rebellious phase, who was in the upper grades of elementary school at the time. When I visited, they were living surrounded by various things in a 3DK apartment. She had even kept her own baby clothes, and the floor was almost invisible.

She must have been someone who cherished things very much.

Exactly. So, over three days, the two of us tidied up while the children were at school. On the first day, the son came home looking grumpy, but on the second day, he showed a smile for the first time in a long while, saying, "So this was the color of our floor." On the third day, he asked his mom with a smile, "What should I display on my desk?" and the younger daughter was delighted, saying, "Now I can invite friends over like everyone else." Seeing how the children's expressions and family relationships changed in just three days, I thought I had to make this my job. At the time, there was a food education boom, but I became convinced that the home environment was more important.

I originally wanted ten children, so I got married early after graduating from the Faculty of Business and Commerce. I thought it wasn't realistic to work outside while giving birth to and raising children myself, so I thought about what kind of work I could do at home to earn money. I entered the Faculty of Business and Commerce because I wanted to start a business, and I thought that "organizing tidying and money"—leveraging my strengths in saving/growing money and tidying up—would be useful to the world.

"Organizing tidying and money" is easy to understand and sounds great.

My trigger was also a fellow mother. When I first gave advice, I intended to do it for free, but I received a cash reward, which gave me the confidence that I had done work worthy of being paid for.

The fact that I can work while raising six children is largely due to the house being tidy. As a financial planner, besides individual consultations, I write serialized columns and work as a seminar instructor. My work has expanded like a "Straw Millionaire" story, with people who saw my columns applying for interviews or consultations.

People who have trouble with money are often also people who have trouble with tidying. People who come for money advice also ask for tidying advice, and those who come for tidying advice also ask for money advice. My work currently revolves around both.

Do you actually visit their homes?

I visit for tidying consultations. For money consultations, I have them come to my house, and when they see my home, it sometimes leads to a request for tidying.

Tidying must be hard with six children. How old is the youngest?

Three years old. Since there are many little "mess-makers," I created a system for tidying in our house. It's a child's job to make a mess, so that in itself isn't bad. What's not good is not being able to tidy up afterward. If I say "tidy up" and they can do it properly, that's okay. If I say a guest is coming in 10 minutes, everyone tidies up all at once.

MUJI doesn't have many products specifically for children, right?

That's true. We have many products for mothers, but we don't actively develop products where the usage scenario is limited, like toys.

Other companies have brightly colored storage goods for children. I think they are designed from a child's perspective, but storage doesn't need to be vivid red, blue, or yellow. Simple colors like MUJI's make a room look cleaner.

MUJI storage can change its purpose as a child grows and can be used forever. I'm grateful that it suits various uses for everyone from children to adults.

To us, everything that holds tools is "storage." If we label something as "for [specific use]," we have to create as many products as there are uses, but a highly versatile shape can be changed depending on the user.

Since color is a matter of preference, we initially made them transparent. The light gray products we sell now are recent. There were voices saying transparent was good because you could see the contents at a glance, but as a result, the colored ones sold better. Apparently, transparent is "noisy."

Because you can see the contents.

Exactly. Many people use them in offices and want to keep visible areas looking clean, and partly because we use recycled materials, we added color. We didn't increase color variations but unified them into a "concrete-like tone" of light gray.

MUJI storage cases have good colors, and I recommend them too. The file box with the slanted front is a staple. This is useful because if you turn it around when guests come, the contents are hidden.

It seems many people use those file boxes in the kitchen too.

Yes. They are also convenient for storing frying pans and such.

From such people, we also get requests to remove the "hakama" (the front partition part). Though the hakama is also there to maintain strength.

True, when used inside a shelf, the hakama makes it harder to put documents in and out. But when used on top of a shelf, it looks better with the hakama.

I want both (laughs).

MUJI has an underlying premise of not increasing product types too much. One type of chopstick stand, pen stand, or toothbrush stand is enough. The important thing is whether the customer can imagine various uses from it. We try not to create specialized items.

In my house, we use the same products for various purposes.

People who can use highly versatile products are people who can tidy up. People who can't tidy up assume they need specialized items, and as a result, their belongings increase. Reusing simple items is also a secret to tidying.

The reason there are so many things in the world might be because people don't think much about how they want to design their own lives.

I often use things differently from their original purpose, like using a planter for something else, but people who are bad at tidying tend to choose specialized items. Since the pandemic, I've started giving advice online and have had more opportunities to see homes abroad. I feel that Japan has a lot of things relative to the size of the houses. Also, the awareness of "home" is different; especially in Europe, I get the impression they use old things and what they already have very skillfully.

I also feel that Japanese people have too many things. And they are all things that are "convenient to have." But those are mostly low-versatility "specialized" items. As a result, they often can't tidy up, and I always say, "You won't be in trouble without things that are just 'convenient to have'" (laughs).

Apple peelers, garlic peelers... there are many homes where the kitchen is overflowing with such things.

They are all specialized. I wonder if they intend to collect tools for every single ingredient.

On the other hand, there are things you only realize because you've wasted money like that. Even someone raised by a mother who has loved MUJI since childhood won't understand some things without experiencing them. I think it's okay to waste money until around age 20. As a result, they might notice something and understand the good feeling of not owning many things.

In my lectures, I say that private rooms like children's rooms don't have to be tidy. Children might want to vent stress in their rooms when they reach puberty. What's important is that the living and dining areas are reasonably tidy. What's not good is parents scolding children to tidy up when they aren't doing it themselves.

The purpose of tidying is not the act itself but to live comfortably, so if the person says they want colored storage, that's fine, and if they are comfortable as a result, that's good.

However, it is definitely easier to do housework and easier for children to play if it's tidy. I think it's fine to have a mess as long as there is a tidy state to begin with. Personally, I think it's fundamentally better to be organized.

At Ryohin Keikaku, we used to have a routine where we would wipe the tables with a cloth when we arrived at work in the morning. Since it ends quickly if there's nothing on the desk, it resulted in a habit of leaving with nothing on the desk. We would put stationery and such in drawers and leave with nothing out. Then the next day, after a quick wipe, we would take out what we needed and start work. We started this compulsorily. Then, gradually, the feeling of having to go out of one's way to tidy up disappeared.

Wonderful. It became the norm.

At first, everyone found it a hassle, but from a certain point, they realized it was good and started doing it spontaneously. It might be okay to turn it into a rule to some extent.

It's training. I really want the basics of tidying to be taught in home economics classes. We are in an era where both husbands and wives work and must do housework regardless of gender. Tidying isn't taught in school, so you have to do it your own way. But like housework, it's something you do every day, so I want this to be taught properly in school.

I think so too.

Tidying is necessary for both work and life, and if you can tidy up, work, housework, and studying should all progress better.

That's right. Even if you can do the wiping because it's a company rule, it's not very effective when a mother says it at home. If it's taught in school, awareness might change.

I want it to be taught systematically if possible. Tidying until now has been intuitive, and there was no awareness of circulating items. Even though "mottainai" is said to be Japanese culture, various things are commercialized and everyone buys in bulk. They can't let go of what they've bought, and it overflows in their rooms. I think everyone would find it easier to live if they were taught the system all the way to disposal.

When I give lectures, I always prepare the garbage sorting chart for that region. When I check it with everyone and say it's this easy to throw things away, and that things put out on "resource" days don't become trash, they are surprised. When they learn that old clothes are reused for second-hand clothing, work gloves, felt, etc., they are convinced and think, "In that case, maybe I'll put them out." Knowing the circulation system seems to lower the hurdle for letting go of things.

I also tell people that if they let go of unnecessary things as soon as possible, they will be useful to someone else. If you find something inconvenient, rather than enduring and continuing to use it, let go of it quickly because there is surely someone else who would like to use it.

People say it's a waste because it was expensive, but letting it deteriorate as it is is much more of a waste. I think it's also good to use flea market apps or recycle shops.

It would be fine for schools to teach that too. Plastic bags at supermarkets now cost money, and straws have become paper straws, but more than that, I want people to be able to avoid buying useless things or know the system to circulate them immediately even if they do buy them.

I agree. Actually, the term SDGs doesn't really click with me.

Me neither.

I don't think everyone thinks it's good just because it's called SDGs. It's a difficult issue.

I want to say there are more things we can do in areas other than plastic bags and straws.

People who struggle with tidying up often read many books on the subject, so they have the information. However, because of that, they sometimes force their children to do advanced tidying that they themselves cannot even manage.

At a home I visited previously, the mother herself was not good at tidying and the kitchen was cluttered, yet she asked me to do something about her middle school son's desk. When I looked at his desk, things were piled high. As we tidied up, a small tabletop broom and dustpan emerged from the very bottom.

What was that for?

Apparently, the mother had prepared it specifically to clean up eraser shavings. But for something like that, you can just grab a trash can and sweep it in quickly with one hand, or vacuum it up if it spills. I realized that people who can't tidy up tend to buy specialized tools and make their children follow tedious cleaning methods.

There are many people who want to own a lot of tools, aren't there?

People who are good at tidying also tend to make organization too difficult for children. For example, using small drawers with fine classifications and adding dividers inside. In the end, the child can't keep up with the classification, and things are left out. Originally, the inside of a drawer can be quite loose. I want people to lower the hurdle for their children's tidying.

People who come for tidying consultations often say, "My husband..." or "My child...," but the cause often lies with the person themselves. Before worrying about family members, I want them to think about their own kitchen first—like reducing the stockpile of convenience store spoons and forks they keep thinking they might use someday.

First of all, it's about not accepting them in the first place.

I want people to abandon the idea that the more things you have, the better.

My eldest son is in his 20s, but he has no desire for possessions and owns very little. As a parent, I can't help but wonder what he finds fun in life (laughs).

He's probably seeking something other than material things (laughs).

I feel that way too. During the period of high economic growth, people prioritized what they wanted to do even if they didn't have money. You could call it greedy, but everyone was like that. Now that we are overflowing with things, there's an atmosphere where everyone wants to live peacefully. They say car-sharing is fine and don't even think about owning a house.

I'm that type. As long as I can use something, it's fine; I don't need to own it as long as it's there when I need it.

As long as that doesn't cause any inconvenience. On the other hand, we live in an era where many people are troubled because they have too many things. There are many products that people buy on impulse but put away after using them only a few times.

The fact that you can buy things easily online is a big factor. You order something because you want it, but by the time it arrives, you've forgotten about it (laughs). There are surprisingly many homes with piles of unopened cardboard boxes.

Even though we have enough tools for daily life, slightly improved versions keep coming out, and the way they are presented to stimulate the desire to buy is the real problem.

On the contrary, I'm happier when companies like MUJI continue to provide standard products. It's very helpful when I want to replace something worn out with the exact same item.

Yes, that's what I appreciate. It was very helpful to be able to get the same items when my family grew.

At other mass retailers, it's often the case that you can't find the same item when you go to buy more. Storage items in particular change shape slightly, making it impossible to stack them with what you already have.

Continuing to supply the same products was a theme from the very start of MUJI. There were few manufacturers where you could get the same item as 10 years ago, and customers were frustrated that they couldn't keep using good things for a long time.

In terms of performance, MUJI products have no dead space. 100-yen shop file boxes are designed to be wider at the top so they can be stacked for display, but that creates wasted space at the bottom. As a result, they are difficult to use.

I also appreciate that MUJI products are improved without changing their dimensions.

That is also the secret to keeping the design consistent even when the person in charge of development changes. We decided on rules at some point to make it that way, but we weren't thinking that far ahead during the startup phase.

Initially, MUJI products were conceived with the idea of simply removing colors and patterns to solve user dissatisfaction. The budget was limited, so we created products by utilizing existing molds held by manufacturers. Eventually, we decided to create storage furniture called the Steel Unit Shelf, and we unified the sizes so that the items being stored would also fit without issues. As a result, they became accepted as standard items.

All the products fit perfectly and look very beautiful.

But the trouble with storage items is that they sell as fast as you make them. If we make a half-size box, it's also well-received. But there's no end to it. It's convenient if drawers can be divided into two or four parts, but then, how many divisions should we make? (laughs).

That said, it feels great when items and storage fit perfectly.

Since around 2010, more than 70% of the people requesting my services are dual-income couples. People who can tidy up can do so even if they are busy. On the other hand, those who struggle with it tend to fall apart using busyness as an excuse.

In households with children, I hope they consider "work-life balance" with the children's lives at the center. At one home, I heard that even when the high school-aged child returned home in the evening, they would immediately go back out and wander around town. When I actually saw the home, all three private rooms were being used as storage rooms. The high schooler had no private room and was sleeping in the same room as their younger brothers and mother. However, the parents hadn't noticed at all that this was why the child didn't want to be at home.

I want parents to check once again whether their home is a comfortable environment for their children. And I want them to think about "what kind of ingenuity is needed to protect the children's lives even while working."

I agree. Work is important, but I believe housework is just as important. Although it's a difficult era to say this, there are still roles that women must fulfill.

That's true. Something I always say in lectures at kindergartens is, "I don't want you to feel guilty about not working." What you can do at home as a parent has a very significant meaning.

Exactly. Earning money is important, but I want people to value tidying and housework that allows them to spend time comfortably with their children.

I am in favor of women's social advancement, but I want people to be careful that children don't suffer the consequences of both parents working. While it's important for the community to watch over children, I still want the parents to be the ones who understand their children best. For that, an environment where couples can work with some leeway and a parental leave environment where they can return without rushing is necessary. And I think it would be great if there were jobs that mothers could share with each other.

But in the end, the burden falls on the mothers, doesn't it? I want them to not view it as a burden, but to actively feel it is their role. Instead of thinking "Why do I have to do the housework and childcare?", I want them to think of it as "my job."

I agree. I have some resistance to the term "one-op parenting" (solo parenting).

Currently, the trouble with dual-income parenting is when a child suddenly gets a fever at daycare and someone has to go pick them up. In the end, the mother is often the one who sacrifices, which can also lead to family discord. Perhaps things would change if men could actively choose to be stay-at-home dads.

I used to have a sense of pride and superiority, thinking that I was the one who understood my children best.

Nowadays, society has become one that denies that, hasn't it?

It's very unfortunate that even if someone dares to choose to be a stay-at-home mom while the children are small, they feel uncomfortable due to recent social trends. I want the world to become a warm place for both working moms and stay-at-home moms.

I often say that the root cause of not being able to tidy up is keeping unnecessary things forever. In "Danshari" (decluttering), they say to think with yourself as the axis, right? Even if something is convenient for others, if it's inconvenient for you, you don't need it. If you can judge between use / don't use / use now / don't use now, you can tidy up. And I want education that enables such judgment. Schools don't teach that now. So, to repeat myself, I want tidying to be incorporated into Home Economics.

Home Economics also teaches economic activities, so while learning about the buying and selling of various things, I want to teach them not just about buying, but also that there are things that become unnecessary and that it's okay to dispose of items.

It might be good to decide on an expiration date in advance, such as how long you will keep something you bought today. Setting aside consumables, in the case of durable goods, think about how long it will be useful before buying it. If the period is short, sharing is an option. I think that would reduce reckless buying.

I always say to let go if you think "...might." Let's temporarily dispose of things you "might use."

We used to have a bread maker at home. We bought it caught up in the trend. I kept it for a while thinking I might use it again someday, but in the end, I disposed of it.

There are more sharing services for home appliances now. At our house, we tried a Roomba through a subscription service, and since it was easy to use, we bought one.

Sharing also has the advantage of allowing you to decide where to store it before you buy it.

Exactly. Since home appliances are especially determined by the location of outlets, being able to try them out beforehand is very significant.

I feel that the number of households where communication is lacking has been increasing lately. It might be because they are busy and have no time, but I think if the time for dialogue increases, the rooms will also get tidied up.

Paradoxically, I think if you can tidy up, you can make that kind of time. We often play board games at our house, but I feel that if the house wasn't tidy, we wouldn't be able to play like this. If the table is clear, you can cook with your children. Tidying is indeed important for a high-quality life.

I also talk about planning various strategies to change the troublesome habits of children and family members. For example, if someone takes off their socks and leaves them scattered when they get home, it's effective to place a basket at the entrance and post a note saying, "Put your socks in here before coming up."

I also think that if things are always left scattered, it's best to turn that spot where they are left into the storage location.

Speaking of storage, there was once a petition at a MUJI store to expand the warehouse space because it was too narrow. In response, the president said, "Alright, I understand," and instead reduced the area. His idea was to turn the warehouse into sales floor space and put all the inventory out. Having a warehouse was what was causing them to hold so much stock.

I also don't think that more storage is necessarily better. I think being obsessed with storage is a Japanese characteristic, but walk-in closets are usually difficult to use, aren't they?

I agree. People tend not to return items to storage that is hard to access, so it's important to be able to take things out and put them away in a single action.

I've been involved in the development of storage products for a long time, but I hadn't thought much about the act of tidying. However, in the cycle of waking up in the morning and sleeping at night, I realized at one point that if I clean up before going to bed, I won't wake up to a mess the next morning.

It's obvious when you think about it, but there were times when dishes were left in the sink, and those mornings didn't feel good. Since then, I've decided to clear the dishes at night.

Because you can start the day from scratch. I also think a morning that begins with the previous day's tidying doesn't feel good.

If you do it the day before, it's over quickly, but for some reason, it takes longer if you do it the next day. Eventually, I somehow became the one in charge of the dishes. If you wash them right after eating, you don't need much detergent, and once it becomes a habit, it's not that much of a chore.

I also tell busy people to complete things within a single day. Since things taken out that day should only take a few minutes to tidy, I suggest trying to clear the table and floor at least once before dinner and before bed.

I spend the most time in the kitchen, and since it's the place that tends to get cluttered most easily, I want to keep at least that area feeling pleasant.

I think your home is probably quite tidy, Mr. Hagiwara. This might be a prejudice, but often the cause of clutter is the man (laughs).

Is that so? But everyone does it when they live alone, right? I think when there are two people, there are times when neither does it. In my case, I hate having to go out of my way to decide on chores, so it's fine if whoever notices just does it, but that's not always how it goes. For example, when my wife is doing housework, she might tell me she's busy and ask me to go get the newspaper.

But I think that's proof that you have good communication. I feel that homes where the woman has the power tend to run more smoothly. Households where the man takes the lead often have a sense of tension or stagnation. I think things are more open and airy when the woman is strong.

That might be true (laughs).

Isn't the problem of tidying up often caused by children? I think things increase when there are children. If there were no children and it was just the two of us, I feel like we wouldn't worry about it as much.

No, there are many single people who can't tidy up either. I believe the basis of tidying is returning things to their designated spots, but many single people haven't even decided on those spots. For those people, the place where they just leave things becomes the designated spot.

The vast majority of people are like that.

I said that a child's job is to make a mess, but that is instinctive; I don't think putting things away is an animal instinct. However, if you teach them, they can return things to their original places. Children can do it at kindergarten or school.

The reason they can't do it at home is probably because the parents haven't decided on designated spots. If you can teach them that, children should be able to put things away.

I think that is the major premise as well. In kindergartens or nurseries, things are categorized finely into "play house (food)" or "play house (pots and pans)," and they can tidy up because there are rules and others watching, but at home, it's better to be broader. Home is the place where everyone wants to relax the most, so a broad container labeled "play house" is fine. If you make the categories too fine, it actually leads to more clutter.

I also think categorization at home can just be things like "toys."

It's the same for adults. Occasionally, I find homes where batteries are found in various places. This is because the storage for batteries is scattered across different locations like light bulbs or stationery. Whether you treat them as "electric-like things" or "stationery-like things," the key is to make them easy to return with broad categories.

People probably forget the categories they decided on themselves, too.

I was surprised at one home where the towel shelves were labeled "polka dots," "stripes," and "solid colors." Of course, the contents were a mess. I suggested peeling off the labels and just grouping them as "towels."

In the kitchen, some people label transparent containers with "flour" or "XX powder." It certainly looks beautiful, but a month later, they run out while cooking and end up opening a spare bag. Rather than missing the timing to transfer it and having the system break down, I recommend deciding on a storage spot and storing it in the bag as is.

Making it easy to put things away is important for living comfortably. Tidying is ultimately just a means to that end. Especially when you have many children, making it easy to put things away becomes a top priority. In my house, the children are in charge of putting away the laundry, but they just toss their clothes and towels into drawers without folding them. Since children end up rummaging through them to find clothes anyway, there's no need to fold. Simplicity is truly important.

It's also important to know that tidying up is not something that ends after one time. Some experts say, "This is the end," but in reality, it's a cycle of putting things away after using them, so you first need to understand that you have to keep doing it. To continue putting things away without it being a burden, it's good to start by deciding what is needed and what is not. If you can make this judgment, you should be able to tidy up.

And it's important to create an environment that is easy to tidy. Getting a professional to help with that is also an option.

That's true. Once you try asking for help, you understand how to go about it.

MUJI also holds seminars on organizing and storage. Our interior advisors are involved in such initiatives. For example, I think there are often "sloppy fathers," and in those cases, it seems easier to resolve the issue if a third party tells them rather than trying to handle it within the family.

That makes sense.

When a family member says it, it's often dismissed, but when a stranger says it, I think it can be corrected harmoniously.

When I ask, "Why is this here?" some people are taken aback. Having it pointed out helps them realize the inconvenience they've been living with and leads to thinking about solutions.

It might also be good to recognize that tidying up is difficult. Some people get depressed sometimes, but it really is quite hard. There are many items and various storage goods. I think it's important to recognize these two points: that it is difficult and that it is an ongoing process.