Participant Profile
Shinpei Kato
Other : Founder and CTO of TIER IV, Inc.Faculty of Science and Technology GraduatedKeio University alumni (2008 PhD, Science and Technology). He open-sourced "Autoware," an OS for autonomous driving, and leads its development. He also serves as an Associate Professor at the Graduate School of Information Science and Technology, The University of Tokyo.
Shinpei Kato
Other : Founder and CTO of TIER IV, Inc.Faculty of Science and Technology GraduatedKeio University alumni (2008 PhD, Science and Technology). He open-sourced "Autoware," an OS for autonomous driving, and leads its development. He also serves as an Associate Professor at the Graduate School of Information Science and Technology, The University of Tokyo.
Interviewer: Yutaka Ishikawa
Other : Professor, National Institute of InformaticsKeio University alumni
Interviewer: Yutaka Ishikawa
Other : Professor, National Institute of InformaticsKeio University alumni
2023/01/16
What is an OS for Autonomous Driving?
──Expectations are rising for the practical application of fully autonomous driving. Please tell us about "Autoware," the OS for autonomous driving.
Autonomous driving is a world where the perspective changes depending on your field of expertise. Most people probably imagine the shape of a car, but from the perspective of computer science, it is closer to a robot. To me, it is an image of numerous computers and sensors connected via a network. It doesn't feel like I'm building a car. Software development plays a crucial role in autonomous driving technology.
At TIER IV, we have led the development of Autoware, but when we say "OS," what that refers to is actually quite ambiguous. For example, "Windows" is a general term that includes software like Office. Autoware is similar to this, but an OS is ultimately a platform and is not something used in isolation. The current situation is that various people are putting different things on top of it and testing them.
──In the field of computer science, autonomous driving software is the ultimate total technology and a very attractive field.
Various experts are involved in autonomous driving, and I'm sure people in each field feel the same way. There are truly many different perspectives involved.
My area of expertise is computer science, but from a business perspective, making autonomous driving a reality is on a scale similar to starting another company like Microsoft. It is a difficult world where specialists are involved in each individual technology, yet the business cannot succeed unless you have an understanding of all fields.
──Please tell us about the difficulties you faced in developing Autoware.
To put autonomous driving into practical use, various things must be added to the OS. Creating just the OS is possible if you have knowledge of computer science, but the hard part is organizing the interfaces with other fields when adding something. Therefore, to incorporate the voices of many experts, we launched an international industry organization called the Autoware Foundation in 2018.
Advancing Development through an International Industry Organization
──Is the Autoware Foundation currently handling the development of Autoware?
Autoware is being developed using an open-source model where anyone can obtain the source code, which serves as the program's blueprint. Therefore, many engineers other than TIER IV employees are involved in the development. The Autoware Foundation is the organization that manages this open-source development.
In addition to TIER IV, more than 70 businesses and organizations participate in the Foundation, and they serve as the core members for development and decision-making. TIER IV is just one member. I serve as the Chairman, but the Foundation includes people from various backgrounds, from corporations to organizations and research institutions like universities. The number of members joining Slack reaches about 3,000 to 4,000, and the Foundation manages all of them.
──Companies from how many countries are participating?
I believe it's about 20 countries. Among them, about a thousand people are actually involved in the work of writing program code.
The development of Autoware began at Nagoya University in 2013. Immediately after starting, we received a huge response from all over, and we founded TIER IV in 2015. For the first two years or so, it was operated by TIER IV, but we realized that open source does not demonstrate its true value if it belongs to a single company, so we launched the Foundation. With an industry organization as the parent body, the system ensures that development will continue through other participating companies even if TIER IV were to withdraw.
──By making it open source, it is sometimes called the "democratization of autonomous driving technology." For whom is it being democratized?
Directly, it is open to developers. But in the end, isn't it everyone, including the users? By allowing anyone to develop, I believe autonomous driving will reach almost everyone. By democratizing technology, many people can enjoy its benefits. I believe this is the state of highest value.
The Potential of Open Source
──Please tell us the origin of the company name "TIER IV."
The "IV" in "TIER IV" is also an abbreviation for "Intelligent Vehicle." In the automotive industry, which consists of a multi-layered subcontracting pyramid structure, there is a custom of categorizing companies into hierarchies like Tier 1, Tier 2, and Tier 3. However, when it comes to the development of autonomous driving, I believe these hierarchies will all disappear.
That said, automobile manufacturing will not become a disorganized horizontal division of labor. In product development that emphasizes safety and quality, such as automobiles, it is necessary to vertically integrate each supplier. A structure that opens up this vertically integrated ecosystem and incorporates new technologies like autonomous driving is important.
──Does it feel like the mechanical parts have technically saturated, and the value will be determined by the software from now on?
That's right. In that sense, my basic thinking is that it would be unthinkable to implement a horizontal division of labor for the parts that are already saturated at this point.
──Why did you focus on autonomous driving?
First, as a researcher, my curiosity was piqued by the existence of technical challenges. Furthermore, autonomous driving has social and industrial value. For me, the fact that these three elements were aligned was significant.
I wanted to make this into a form that anyone could use, so I made it open source. At the time, Google was already advancing the development of an autonomous driving OS, and I felt that simply following them would not allow us to overtake them early on.
──Did you enter the Department of Information and Computer Science at Keio's Faculty of Science and Technology with the intention of researching computers from the start?
Yes. When I was in high school, I read a book by Bill Gates and decided to study programming. Following Gates' example, at the Yagami Campus, I joined the laboratory led by Professor Yūichirō Anzai (which later became independent as Professor Nobuyuki Yamasaki's laboratory) and built OSs. Including part-time jobs, I have built about 20 OSs so far.
After that, my interest shifted toward supercomputer research. After submitting my doctoral thesis at Keio, I moved to the University of Tokyo and continued my research as a researcher under Professor Ishikawa. Supercomputer research was also interesting, but I gradually began to want to be involved in things that lead to solving social issues, so I shifted my focus to the development of an autonomous driving OS, which is an adjacent field to robotics.
──I imagine studying abroad at Carnegie Mellon University was also a big factor.
I studied at Carnegie Mellon University in 2009. Before that, I was working with the National Institute of Advanced Industrial Science and Technology (AIST) and Professor Ishikawa on research into "real-time distributed information processing for humanoid robots." Fortunately, while studying abroad, I learned that the same technology was being used for autonomous driving and became interested. For example, I saw the potential to solve social issues such as traffic accidents and labor shortages in logistics. Furthermore, there was an existing giant market in the automotive industry. My motivation for development grew within me.
When I started developing Autoware at Nagoya University after returning to Japan, I already felt that Carnegie Mellon University's autonomous driving technology was insufficient from a computer science perspective, and at the same time, I saw potential in making it open source.
──Since the launch of Autoware was in 2015, that means you created a prototype in about two to three years.
That's right. By applying humanoid technology, we initially put software for humanoid robots, which had been developed at AIST, directly into cars.
──Is the origin of Autoware the HRP (Humanoid Robot Platform) software?
Yes. There is no trace of it now, but the origin is the HRP software.
My image at the time was software development, not an OS. I decided to rebuild the OS (in a broad sense) based on the prototype. This allowed us to enhance the functions. The part I worked hardest on was defining interfaces and designing the architecture using a software platform for robot development called ROS (Robot Operating System).
──How many people built the first Autoware?
In addition to students from Nagoya University, we had engineers from AIST and other organizations join us. It was a few people at first, but eventually, it was about 20 people in total. It was also significant that Nagoya University was selected for the JSPS Doctoral Programs for World-Leading Innovative & Smart Education and the JST COI (Center of Innovation) program. All the students were employed by those programs and were in an environment where they could focus on their research. Thanks to that, we were able to work on the development of Autoware over several years.
The Spread of Autoware
──Please tell us about the reaction when you first released Autoware.
The reaction was huge. We received inquiries from automakers like Toyota, electronics manufacturers like Sony, and many other companies.
Even after founding TIER IV, inquiries from overseas companies and others never ceased, so I decided to transfer ownership to a non-profit organization and launched the Autoware Foundation in 2018.
──What is the current status of corporate adoption of Autoware?
It's difficult to define what counts as "adoption," but it's about 1,000 companies. Among them, there are more than 10 partners who are actually integrating it into vehicles with an eye toward market launch. On the other hand, it is being utilized in various ways, such as being used for development benchmarks (indicators) or education. When we held a training course called TIER IV Academy over about three years, we received applications from more than 200 companies. I have the impression it is spreading quite widely.
──What kind of companies are actually using Autoware?
For example, it has been adopted by several Japanese automakers. Autoware is used in many of the autonomous driving demonstration tests being conducted in Japan. Some companies have already started using it commercially for transport within factories.
This is a very good situation for me. What TIER IV wants to do is not mass-produce vehicles, but to mass-produce companies that mass-produce vehicles using Autoware. The concept of TIER IV is that anyone can become a manufacturer if they use Autoware. People in Japanese startups are also contributing a lot to feedback on open source, so we want to actively support them as well.
TIER IV's Business Model
──What is TIER IV's revenue model? Is there a return even if it's open source?
TIER IV's revenue model and open-sourcing are separate issues. For someone who obtains software from a customer's standpoint, whether it is open source or not is almost irrelevant. What matters for being chosen is being able to use high-quality products at low cost with peace of mind. Open source can only take development to about the halfway point. Beyond that is the work of TIER IV as a distributor.
TIER IV has several revenue models. One is the consulting business. we provide consulting to customers who do not know about TIER IV or autonomous driving. Second, there is a customer base that wants to do autonomous driving but doesn't know what to build. For those people, we provide something they can sell, saying, "Why not use this to find your requirements?" This is the so-called turnkey business.
The third is the vehicle development business, which provides vehicle development know-how to people who have the will to "create this kind of vehicle." The fourth is the partnership agreement business (DevOps business) with so-called "Small TIER IVs" who take on platform building on our behalf.
Fifth, there is the AD (Autonomous Driving) software business, which sells software to customers with vehicle development capabilities. TIER IV provides various services like these.
──Please tell us the benefits for automakers using Autoware.
It would have to be the ability to shorten the development period. There weren't that many cases where automakers were advancing in-house development of autonomous driving systems, and even if they try to advance in-house development now, a new and large cost burden will arise, so a cautious decision is required. The people who take this on are the startups. And many startup members are enrolled in the Autoware Foundation. TIER IV's mission is to provide a platform that anyone can use for people who want to develop autonomous driving. Therefore, as long as the installation of Autoware remains the standard, I believe TIER IV and the Autoware Foundation will continue to be at the upstream of development.
TIER IV is currently operating with a scale of 300 to 400 people, but other companies at the core do not need to be of an equivalent scale. This is because TIER IV can provide the platform.
Toward the Practical Application of Robot Taxis
──For TIER IV to maintain its appeal with a cutting-edge OS, I think the frequency of software releases is also important. At what pace are you releasing now?
About once every two months. I think it's a high pace, but we are able to release quickly because we have adopted an agile development method that repeats small cycles in functional units within the development process.
──How many years into the future do you foresee the release milestones (major points of development)?
We are looking ahead to around 2030. When autonomous driving technology is put into practical use, it may become possible to use various vehicles like taxis. Considering the practical application of "robot taxis" with no one in the driver's seat, we are drawing a roadmap that far ahead.
──Then, the realization of robot taxis with Autoware will be...
It is expected to be around 2030. It is already possible to run them now, but they are not yet profitable, and legal aspects must also be cleared. Those things will be in place around 2030. As a concrete image, we are thinking of practical use in rural areas or overseas where there is no public transportation.
TIER IV's mission includes "Creation and Destruction," and while the development of Autoware is of course creation, we must also be sensitive to destruction. For example, if robot taxis become necessary in Tokyo due to labor shortages, the existing taxi industry will be forced to reorganize. But looking at it differently, you could say that the taxi industry is not functioning at that point. At that time, we will take responsibility for the robot taxi business. I believe such things are also part of TIER IV's future mission.
──Thank you very much for today. We look forward to your future developments.
(Recorded on November 24, 2022, at TIER IV, Inc.)
*Affiliations and titles are as of the time of publication.