Special Three-Person Dialogue: International Cooperation for the Enactment of Civil Codes in Asia—The Contribution of Keio University alumni to Legal Technical Assistance

As this is a three-person dialogue, I would like to begin by explaining its purpose.

As globalization progresses and market economy systems permeate countries around the world, Japan has been implementing legal technical assistance as part of its international cooperation since the late 1990s. This is to help develop the legal systems necessary for the introduction of market systems and the advancement of democratization, especially in Asian countries experiencing remarkable growth.

Specifically, these countries include Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar, Nepal, Indonesia, Bangladesh, Timor-Leste, China, Mongolia, and Uzbekistan. Compared to "visible" support like infrastructure development such as roads and railways, legal technical assistance is a more "invisible" and modest form of international cooperation. However, it has become more active since the 1990s, when institutional differences gained attention as a fundamental cause influencing national development. Today, it is recognized as a distinctive pillar of Japan's international cooperation, aiming to build the "rule of law."

This is also deeply related to the trend of sharing global norms. Currently, legal technical assistance plays a part in international cooperation toward achieving the Sustainable Development Goals, which are based on a UN General Assembly resolution. In particular, "Goal 16," which aims to build an inclusive society (one that leaves no one behind) through inclusive (comprehensive, general) institutional reform, makes the connection with legal technical assistance clear.

Now, in recent years, there have been quite a few Keio University alumni active in the field of this legal technical assistance. Today, as their representatives, I would like to discuss with Mr. Katsunori Irie and Ms. Takako Nagao—who have contributed as attorneys to legal technical assistance centered on the enactment of civil codes in Nepal and Laos—what legal technical assistance aims for, its significance, its difficulties, and its prospects. The backdrop to today's dialogue is that many other Keio University alumni, besides ourselves, are now contributing to and striving in legal technical assistance.

Since my student days, I have been interested in the theory of natural law. As I researched and taught civil law at the university starting in 1990, my awareness of the issues naturally took concrete form in development law and legal technical assistance. In the 2000s, I became involved in the planning and implementation of civil law development assistance in Laos and Nepal from the very beginning.

Since the establishment of the Law School in 2004, I have been offering a course called "Development Law." It is deeply moving to see that students who took this course have now graduated and are standing on the front lines of legal technical assistance as long-term experts.

Japan's legal technical assistance is distinctive in that it is carried out in a cooperative manner. From the standpoint of Official Development Assistance, central players include the Japan International Cooperation Agency (JICA) and the International Cooperation Department (ICD) of the Research and Training Institute of the Ministry of Justice. On the other hand, from a non-governmental standpoint, universities, the Japan Federation of Bar Associations (JFBA), and NGOs/NPOs like the International Civil and Commercial Law Centre also participate and collaborate with each other.

First, let's hear from Ms. Nagao, who was involved in legal technical assistance in Nepal. You graduated from the Department of Law, Faculty of Law in 2006 after attending Keio Girls Senior High School. What sparked your interest in this field?

I had two dreams when I was in junior high school. One was to become a lawyer and work on things like criminal defense. The other was to be involved in supporting developing countries through an organization like UNICEF or UNHCR.

I entered the Department of Law, Faculty of Law at university. At the time, it was the height of the judicial system reform, and entering the legal world was seen in a very positive light, so I started studying with the aim of becoming a lawyer.

After passing the bar examination and completing my legal training, I had the opportunity to join a mid-sized corporate law firm in Tokyo. I'm very glad I was able to start my career as a lawyer there, as I was able to grasp the basic way of working as a lawyer and gain knowledge and an image of various legal fields.

However, after five or six years as a corporate lawyer, there was a time when I wondered if I would be happy continuing to work in the business field as a corporate lawyer for the rest of my life. My other dream of international cooperation and supporting developing countries had not yet faded from my heart, and I wanted to try that as well. It was then that a junior from my high school happened to tell me that JICA had a field called legal technical assistance and was recruiting lawyers.

So, when a position for an expert in Nepal came up, I thought it might be my chance and jumped at it. Luckily, I was hired.

Mr. Irie, you graduated from the Faculty of Economics but have entered the legal field and are now active as an expert. Could you tell us what led you to this path?

I graduated from the Faculty of Economics in 2002 after attending Chutobu Junior High School and Keio Senior High School, and I entered law school in 2005. I was registered as a lawyer in 2009, became a Senior Advisor for the Japan International Cooperation Agency (JICA) in April 2015, and began my work as a long-term expert in Laos in June 2017.

There were several reasons why I, a graduate of the Faculty of Economics, decided to become a lawyer, but the biggest reason was that I felt a job where I could lend a hand to people in need suited my disposition.

During my university days, I spent my days in a state of anguish, not knowing who I was. While I wanted to immerse myself in something that would lead to my future, I couldn't get into anything, and I wasn't very interested in economics either.

It was then that I happened to take a law course and found it fascinating how the human aspect came to the forefront. The thought that I might be able to use the law to help people in need was a major catalyst for my decision to become a lawyer.

That's how I became a lawyer, but as Ms. Nagao mentioned, while I was leading a fulfilling life doing corporate legal work and litigation, there were times when I wondered if what I was putting my energy into every day was truly benefiting society.

I had a desire somewhere to do international work, and that, combined with my desire for social contribution, made me start to rethink my values around the fourth or fifth year of my career as a lawyer.

I happened to attend a JFBA seminar that introduced lawyers engaged in international cooperation and legal technical assistance, and my interest grew as I learned that such work existed. In 2014, I participated in a capacity-building training program hosted by JICA to nurture legal technical assistance experts, which strengthened my desire to be involved in this world, and that's how I became a Senior Advisor.

Listening to both of you, I find many points of empathy. Law is a framework for understanding the mechanisms of the world and solving problems, and it can also be a tool for reforming society.

The world cannot be changed easily, but it is only through changing institutions that the world truly changes. The initial trigger for that is the legal system. I believe both of you felt that as a tool for social reform, it could also have an impact in the field of international cooperation.

Next, I would like to ask about your specific activities and experiences as local experts in legal technical assistance.

I have long believed that order and pace are crucial in legal technical assistance. A legal system consists of a vast number of rules, so it is very difficult to know where and how to start. It is important to firmly establish fundamental rules, starting with a civil code that defines the basic rights and obligations of citizens, and to advance legal development based on that.

When creating those rules, I believe it is important for the assisting side not to suddenly present something and say, "Here's something good, what do you think?" Instead, the approach should be to support the process from the stage where local people draft the text based on their own history and customs. The local people are the main actors, and we add our experience to support them.

However, this takes a very long time. Legal technical assistance takes 10 or 20 years, and things often don't go as planned. I myself have had such frustrating experiences.

Among them, I believe Nepal and Laos were examples of a process-oriented style, where we added a comparative law perspective and provided comments on the drafting process as local people learned and created the draft, and we built the rules through frank discussions.

First, in Nepal, the first civil code was created in September 2017. This was the first civil code in Nepal and also the first in South Asia. The historical significance of Nepal having a civil code before India, in particular, was immense.

Nepal is a multi-ethnic nation with a deeply entrenched caste system in its society. Moreover, a civil war broke out, and there were incidents where radical Maoists attacked police and military bases. After the civil war ended in 2006, a reorganization of the system began with the aim of national reconciliation.

I first went to Nepal in January 2009, and we began discussions starting from the framework of the civil code. The first draft was completed in 2011, but when it was submitted to the Constituent Assembly before the constitution was established, conflicts between political parties could not be stopped, and the Constituent Assembly was dissolved the following year without the constitution being completed on time. After that, a re-election of the Constituent Assembly members was held, a new Constituent Assembly was established in 2014, the constitution was created in 2015, and parliamentary deliberations on the civil code finally began.

Ms. Nagao, you were assigned right at that time and were in charge of the final coordination with the legislative committee of the Nepalese parliament.

I was assigned in September 2015, just when the constitution was enacted. For the Legislature-Parliament of Nepal (the Constituent Assembly transitioned to the Legislature-Parliament with the establishment of the constitution), it was a time when they thought, "Now that the constitution is done, next we'll enact the basic laws: the civil code, criminal code, civil procedure code, criminal procedure code, and the sentencing act." Being assigned at that time was, in itself, very fortunate. Also, the contributions of JICA, including Professor Matsuo, from around 2009 had been properly carried on.

Specifically, I was to assist in the final stages of the civil code bill that had already been submitted to parliament.

With the new constitution in place, there was a growing atmosphere of "let's push forward with nation-building." The fundamental idea for this nation-building was the concept of being inclusive (leaving no one behind), which was also written in the new constitution. Nepal has various ethnic groups and castes, and there is also a gap between men and women. So, the atmosphere that inclusiveness was crucial for nation-building was, at least on the surface, very strong.

What are your thoughts on the features of Nepal's new civil code?

It's true that Nepal previously had nothing called a civil code or a criminal code, but about 150 years ago, the *Muluki Ain*, which translates to "National Code" in Japanese, was created. It was a law that jumbled together civil law, criminal law, civil procedure, and criminal procedure, and also reflected the caste system.

Basically, the courts in Nepal based their judgments on it, but many provisions were not suited to modern society, some articles were not used at all, and there were parts that even I couldn't understand well when I saw the English translation. That's why it was decided to create new, modern civil, criminal, civil procedure, and criminal procedure laws after the civil war ended.

Therefore, the newly created civil code also inherits about 60% from that *Muluki Ain*, 30% from accumulated Nepalese case law, and the remaining 10% is what was learned and adopted from other countries. That's roughly the composition.

In finalizing the draft, from an inclusive perspective, it was decided that we should not only listen to the so-called elite members of parliament, judges, prosecutors, and lawyers in the capital, Kathmandu, but also travel all over Nepal to hear everyone's opinions.

So, members of the legislative committee actually visited 16 major cities in Nepal and heard opinions on the bill from local judges, prosecutors, lawyers, police officers, local government officials, NGO staff, and media personnel.

To be honest, business trips to rural Nepal were very demanding and brought me a lot of hardship. However, I can also say that the most enjoyable and fruitful part was accompanying them on those trips to the 16 cities. The reason is that, as Professor Matsuo mentioned earlier, legal technical assistance is often seen as less visible, but I found that if done well, it can also become support with a human face.

I see.

A program officer from the JICA Nepal office told me, "Accompanying them to various places like you do, Ms. Nagao, is the epitome of support with a human face, and I think it will become a model for the future." This made me very happy.

I didn't offer any opinions on the bill while accompanying them, but while being careful not to interfere in domestic affairs, I think just showing the presence of Japanese support was very effective.

Perhaps because they saw how hard we were working, they began to share information with us, and I feel that the relationship of trust with our counterparts deepened. Building human relationships by eating together and traveling by car during business trips was very enjoyable, and I think that's where I was able to demonstrate my value as an expert.

Thanks to that, even when the bill was finally submitted to parliament and JICA could only watch from the sidelines, they frequently updated me with information, so I was able to convey it to Professor Matsuo and JICA in a timely manner, which I think was very good.

In Nepal, political rivalries are fierce, from the radical Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist) to the Unified Marxist-Leninist party, the Nepali Congress, and even parties representing ethnic minorities. Within that context, when discussing the civil code bill in the legislative committee, there are issues that are commonly accepted and those that are not.

There must be conflicts of opinion between parties, or differences in standpoint between men and women. I imagine you had a lot of trouble coordinating the discussions in the committee. The chairperson of the legislative committee is not from a mainstream political party, are they?

That's right, she was a female lawmaker from the Tharu ethnic minority.

The fact that you, Ms. Nagao, maintained close contact with the members of the legislative committee was also extremely helpful in compiling the bill. Listening to your story, I'm convinced that this good communication was based on your steady, grassroots activities in the regions.

When I first went to Nepal, people of different castes would not normally even eat in the same room. During a meal, a member of parliament from an ethnic minority suddenly stood up and gave a speech, saying, "This is the first time in my life I have eaten in the same room with people of a different caste. Today is a very memorable day for me. I want to share this joy with all of you." I think forming a consensus within such a tradition is extremely difficult.

Many of the key members of the legislative committee responsible for enacting the civil and criminal codes were lawyers, even though they belonged to different political parties and ethnic groups. So, while there were of course conflicts of opinion in parliament, they shared a common understanding that civil and criminal law are fundamentally universal rules that transcend party politics. Therefore, I don't think party conflicts often surfaced during the day-to-day examination of the bills.

Also, the legislative committee as a whole considered passing these five laws to be an important and historic event, so I believe there was basically no major opposition to their enactment.

However, there was strong opposition from female lawmakers and female lawyers over whether to delete or retain the provisions on wills, which were to be introduced in Nepal for the first time with this civil code. In the end, as a result of political discussions, they were deleted. There were times when conflicts between genders and political parties became apparent, pushing the bill to the brink of passage or failure.

The systems of torts and unjust enrichment were introduced for the first time in the Nepalese Civil Code, weren't they?

Regarding wills, although they were in the draft, an entire chapter was deleted at the final stage. I believe this was a situation where they had to bite the bullet and cut it in order to pass the civil code. Was the concern among women's groups about how gender disparity would be rectified when the will system was implemented that great?

That's what I've heard. Even though gender equality was proclaimed for the first time in the constitution, concerns erupted that if a will system allowed parents to decide how to bequeath property to their children, the property would still mostly go to the eldest son. Of course, a system like a legally reserved portion was also included, and it's not that they didn't understand the purpose of the system, but I've heard that the prevailing opinion was that it was a bit too soon.

Now, let's turn our attention to Laos. In Laos, exactly one year after Nepal, the first civil code in socialist Laos was enacted in December 2018. Unlike Nepal, legal technical assistance in Laos began very early, starting in 1998.

Initially, creating a civil code was not a goal, and the drafting of the civil code began in earnest in 2012, after about 10 years. There was a preparatory period before that for creating various textbooks and dictionaries, so I think a typical style of process-oriented legal technical assistance was established.

Mr. Irie, you were present at the final stage of enactment. Here too, there were birth pangs, with the draft being submitted to the National Assembly several times, and each time, there were minor adjustments to the draft. You served as the bridge with the Lao legislative officials.

I first visited Laos around May 2015 as a senior advisor from JICA headquarters. My impression was that the people of Laos are very warm and have a relaxed nature, but they also have a strong will.

Our activities were a continuous process of encouraging the people of Laos, planning activities, setting up meetings, and repeating the same discussions over and over to promote understanding. The most difficult thing was to patiently continue these efforts within the limited time of the project while also having to leave something tangible behind.

As an expert, I was always conscious of "thinking about things in the Lao context." Legal technical assistance is not just about providing knowledge of Japanese law; it's important to think together with the people of Laos about what is good for them in their context. The greatest pleasure is to be involved in the support with an approach that is close to the people of Laos while keeping that in mind.

With professors like Professor Matsuo who have been involved in supporting Laos for a long time and have knowledge of civil law, I thought that what I could contribute was to read the law in Lao as much as possible and judge whether it was appropriate as a Lao legal text. So, I made it a point to be able to judge the draft of the civil code in Lao.

Drafting a civil code is a major national undertaking, and I always felt the responsibility of being involved in it. While respecting the ownership of the Lao side, the civil code drafted with Japanese support would be presented to the world, so as a lawyer, I had to point out what was strange. This balance was very difficult.

Laos is a young country that has significantly reshaped its legal system since 1976, following a socialist revolution. While Nepal has a degree of continuity as it was never colonized, Laos experienced major social changes—being a French colony, then gaining independence, and then undergoing a socialist revolution—and its judicial system was only recently established under the socialist regime.

As you say, the country is very young. After the transition to a market economy in 1986, civil-related laws were created based on foreign assistance, and the drafting of the civil code was the process of drafting these civil laws as a basic law.

Also, in Laos, there is a governing structure that has existed regardless of major institutional changes like the revolution or marketization: the "village." The reality is that many disputes have been resolved under this village system. Even when the judiciary was not functioning, disputes were brought to the village chief, who would arbitrate and decide how to resolve them. If the village chief could not arbitrate well, the village mediation committee would do so.

On the other hand, in terms of the judicial system, the courts, which were under the umbrella of the Ministry of Justice, became independent in 1982. Due to the socialist political system and the circumstances of the establishment of such courts, the political color of the state function of judgment is strong, unlike in Japan and Western countries. The very concept of dispute resolution is different from Japan's, as judicial decisions on each dispute are made from the perspective of what kind of judgment is appropriate for the state.

In such a context, the question of what kind of civil code to create was something we inevitably had to be conscious of.

In the case of Laos, the village system, a traditional community that existed before socialism, maintains the continuity of the system. When placing a new civil code on top of such an existing system, it is very difficult to join them by slightly pulling one towards the other at various points to minimize any gaps.

There were meetings with a sense of tension where one wrong move could have undermined the trust between our countries, and there were also heated discussions. But I believe that was a manifestation of the fact that various stakeholders were desperately trying to create a good law, a good civil code. I was the first foreigner to be allowed to participate in the Standing Committee meeting before the plenary session of the National Assembly, and I felt that I was trusted.

In drafting the civil code, I also felt the difficulty of politics and the insurmountable walls that exist. Even articles that the drafting committee had spent a long time considering were amended in ways the committee did not agree with at the word of senior government officials. However, to achieve the major goal of getting the civil code passed by the National Assembly, there were times when we had to bite the bullet and accept it.

What surprised me even more was that even after the civil code passed the National Assembly, amendments to the articles were made through some members of parliament during the period before it came into effect. I think this is a custom unique to Laos, but this amendment led to some unfortunate results.

Despite this process, I am relieved for now that the civil code has successfully passed the National Assembly and come into effect.

A common theme from listening to both of you is the difficulty of being involved as a foreigner in an activity that concerns the sovereign function of a country. One wrong step and it becomes interference in domestic affairs. On the other hand, there is a need to frankly present comments and information that are actually useful. I think finding the balance here is very difficult.

Since both of you had the deep trust of the government officials in your respective countries, I believe the fact that you were able to get deep inside the committees and build a relationship of trust that allowed for frank discussions was behind the great results you achieved.

In Laos, as I was cooperating with Mr. Irie, some members of parliament at the final stage raised objections to including the concept of "juridical act" in the civil code. They said that this word was already used to mean "laws and regulations" and that it should be changed entirely.

The drafting members had spent over 10 years familiarizing themselves with the concept of "juridical act," writing textbooks and creating problem sets using that word. It was a key concept for explaining various systems in a unified way. When the head of the drafting members confided his worries to me, I was very conflicted. Should we, as advisors, issue a message to the members of parliament, or would that be interfering in domestic affairs?

In the end, as an advisory group, we issued a written opinion to the members of parliament and the Standing Committee, stating that the concept of juridical act is key to this civil code and that there was a reason for the drafters' decision to adopt it after repeated comparative legal studies. Mr. Irie distributed it at the Standing Committee. Our struggle, mediated by Mr. Irie, reached the hearts of the senior members of parliament who were not legal experts, and at the very last moment, the concept was retained in the civil code.

What I wanted to convey at that time was that this was something the young Lao drafting members had prepared and created over 10 years, so perhaps it would be good to trust the young people and respect the process. The successful coordination with Mr. Irie to realize this proposal made it a memorable experience for me as well.

Having been involved in legal technical assistance activities, what changes have you actually perceived in the partner country and its people? The results of legal technical assistance are not immediately visible, but have you felt any signs of change or small changes?

As you said, I don't think the effects are so easily visible. Especially since I left before the civil code was enacted, to be honest, I don't know what has changed.

Even living in Nepal and working with Nepalese government officials and other Nepalese people, I still live at a slight distance, and I felt that I couldn't fully grasp the impact of the actually enacted civil code.

I think that's unavoidable in a way. In other words, I think the proper way is to do what we can, rejoice together that the civil code was created, and since it is the partner country's civil code, entrust its future to their hands. It will be one of my pleasures to see what this Nepalese civil code looks like in 20 or 30 years.

The director of the JICA Nepal office at the time I was assigned wrote in the office newsletter about the terms "people of the wind and people of the soil." The people of the soil are the local people, and the people of the wind are the people from aid agencies. I think the gist was that while a single gust of wind doesn't have a big impact on the soil, if it keeps blowing, it can bring about some change.

I think legal technical assistance is about continuing to blow, and to blow, while thinking about the changes that will become visible.

One thing that made me very happy was that after the momentum for the civil and criminal codes to finally pass through parliament grew, judges, prosecutors, and lawyers began to analyze and study the bills. I thought that from now on, legal professionals would take the lead in disseminating them.

I believe legal professionals have a mission to act as intermediaries between the government and civil society, delivering the results of institutional reform to the people. Society doesn't change all at once; the understanding, awareness, and attitudes of legal professionals change, and through that, people's understanding, awareness, and interest also change. In that sense, the change that occurred among legal professionals is an important step forward. What about you, Mr. Irie?

The civil code has been enacted and is in effect, but if it doesn't function in Lao society, become a chance for dispute resolution, and be used to realize people's rights and interests, it will just be a pie in the sky. We must continue to provide support for that without letting our guard down.

For the civil code to function, it's not enough just to have the legal text; the practices of the courts and administration also need to change, so I think it will take an even longer time.

What we are doing is just one stitch in the process of spinning the thread for nation-building, but it is of great significance in that we cannot move forward without it. I believe that helping to create a peaceful and stable society where people have a civil code and their rights and interests are realized is what we can do as lawyers.

It's quite difficult to actually feel the progress because it takes time, but recently, in meetings, I feel that more opinions are being expressed that adjust the interests of various stakeholders to derive an appropriate interpretation, such as "Wouldn't this conclusion be disadvantageous to this party?" or "Wouldn't it be better to interpret this system this way to promote transactions?"

Until now, I think the people of Laos had the idea that law was something to make citizens obey, to regulate citizens. But now, it's not that, but rather, how can we use the law to make Lao society function, and how can the people of Laos benefit?

More and more opinions are emerging that think in terms of where the good balance for that lies. I believe this is a very valuable step for the future development of Lao jurisprudence.

That's interesting. Indeed, I think the first point is the change in the legal consciousness of lawyers, the Ministry of Justice, the courts, and the prosecution.

The idea that law is a means of state governance is common in Asian countries, and that legal consciousness persists in Japan as well. It's not about completely abandoning such ideas, but at the same time, the process of the "rule of law" being born is when people can use the law to defend and realize their rights, and sometimes to control the government. In that sense, the changes you both have perceived are an important point.

I imagine that from now on, as the law becomes more widespread and cases are tried in court, precedents will be made public to citizens, and citizens will gradually move forward in the direction of using them to defend their rights by law.

I am often asked if there are any benefits for Japan in providing legal technical assistance. My answer is, "Of course, there are." What do you both think you learned the most for yourselves?

Being able to be involved, in some form, in the process of creating a legal code like the civil code from scratch in Nepal was a truly invaluable experience as a lawyer. Of course, the civil code is frequently revised in Japan, but creating a civil code from scratch should never happen again, and the experience of creating a civil code in another country was extremely precious for me as a lawyer.

One thing I can say as a legal professional is that when you properly study the laws of another country, you come to understand very well the characteristics of your own country's laws and the areas where there is room for revision.

During the bar examination, I was just desperately studying the scope of the exam, and by studying Japanese civil law, I had unconsciously come to believe that this is what civil law is. But when I went to law school in the US and studied, for example, American contract law and tort law, I realized that there are indeed differences from Japanese civil law, and that was one eye-opener. Then, being involved in creating a civil code in Nepal was another eye-opener, and I think it was a very significant experience to understand that Japanese law is just one form.

Of course, as long as I practice law in Japan, I will follow that civil code, but I think it is very meaningful to be able to work while thinking that this may not necessarily be the optimal solution. I think that will probably be stimulating as a legal professional, and I believe a time will surely come when I can make some contribution to considering revisions to Japanese law.

I feel the same way as Ms. Nagao. I feel that the biggest thing was gaining the opportunity to re-examine Japan's legal system objectively. I think that can be applied to my future career. You get the opportunity to think about what function law plays in society, and what law is.

Someone who came to Laos on a trip from the Ministry of Justice said, "The most interesting part of legal technical assistance is meeting the Sakamoto Ryoma of Laos." In the midst of a country being built, there are young people with a will, working with the spirit of creating a Lao civil code that they can be proud of in the world. I think the real pleasure of being an expert is being able to work alongside them while feeling their passion firsthand.

That's a very heartfelt message. I completely agree. I often encounter situations where what I had taken for granted is by no means a given, and that there are other solutions. There must be a "reason" for a rule that is rooted in society, and when you think about that reason, you realize that the rule has some kind of rationality.

I believe that from such experiences, more universal rules and universal legal principles are discovered. Under these conditions, this rule is rational, but if the conditions are slightly different, there is another way to create a rule. I think accumulating such discoveries is important for the development of legal studies.

The ultimate goal of legal technical assistance, as advocated by Professor Matsuo, is to realize "a world of ubiquitous rule of law." This resonates with me the most. It is important to move forward toward the realization of a world where everyone, everywhere, can enjoy the benefits of the rule of law at any time.

I was hoping to share that point in closing. For example, breathing air is something you can do in almost the same way no matter which country you go to, but receiving legal services and protection of rights can differ greatly depending on which country you are in.

In my 2009 book, I referred to the state where anyone can receive protection of their rights at any time, in any country, through the establishment of the rule of law as "ubiquitous rule of law," and I called such a global space "a world of ubiquitous rule of law." I believe that international cooperation to make the rule of law as pervasive as breathing air is the ultimate goal of legal technical assistance. However, it is quite difficult to achieve that.

So how do we achieve it? It's not about just creating detailed laws right away. It's important to create laws while valuing the process, to train the experts who will operate them, to change the understanding and attitudes of those experts, and to increase people's understanding, interest, and trust in the legal system.

As long as the image of the legal system as something to be avoided, something one would rather not have to deal with, persists, we will not get closer to a ubiquitous rule of law. Therefore, I think it is important to gradually promote legal reform and a reform of consciousness.

In that sense, I think it is important for the frontiers of legal technical assistance to expand not only to legal experts but also to legal education and the education of the general public about the law. For example, collaboration in legal education between universities, accepting international students from partner countries, and sending our students there are becoming important elements of legal technical assistance in a broad sense.

At the Law School, we established the Keio University Global Research Institute (KEIGLAD) in 2016, and as the "Program for Asian Global Legal Professions (PAGLEP)," we have started collaborating with six universities in the Mekong region of Southeast Asia—Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, and Myanmar—and Keio University to accept and dispatch students and hold joint seminars on legal education. We had Ms. Nagao participate, and Mr. Irie hosted us for training at the project office in Laos.

Through these various channels, I believe we can expand our steady activities toward "a world of ubiquitous rule of law" through inclusive legal technical assistance in that sense. It is something that takes a very long time, but we hope to make a modest contribution.

Today, you have conveyed the kind of atmosphere that is difficult to understand from the outside and can only be understood by being in that country, and I have learned a lot anew. Thank you very much.