[Feature: The Future of Housing Complexes] Roundtable Discussion: A New Richness Seen Through "Living Together"

Today, I would like to discuss the theme of the "Future of Housing Complexes." Post-war Japanese housing complexes (danchi) began with the establishment of the Japan Housing Corporation in 1955, and from the 1960s through the 1970s, mass construction was promoted as a public policy, primarily in urban suburbs.

A key point in discussing danchi is that it was a contemporary phenomenon where many people of similar ages, mainly the salaryman class who aspired to homeownership, experienced living at the same time in housing with relatively similar design philosophies that were ahead of their time. I believe the fact that relatively similar social groups began living together in unfamiliar places had a significant impact on our views of housing, family, and lifestyle.

On the other hand, because it was a contemporary phenomenon, similar problems began to occur simultaneously as time passed. Around the year 2000, issues of aging infrastructure and an aging population became apparent and became the subject of specific policies. In some ways, it feels as though we are now dealing with the "homework" assigned during the period of high economic growth. There are problems across various aspects such as architecture, urban planning, lifestyle, and family, and there are perspectives from both the supply side and the residents' side. I hope we can approach this issue from these diverse angles.

First, I would like to ask Mr. Oe, who has been involved in this issue for a long time, about the relationship between housing complexes and policy.

In architecture, the general principle is one building per site, but the housing complexes we imagine consist of multiple five-story slab-shaped collective housing units built in a way that is not one building per site. In other words, I think the characteristic lies in the fact that they contain common spaces, like a "commons," that do not face the road. These spaces vary greatly in scale and function depending on the size of the complex.

There are three types of management entities for public rental housing complexes: public housing (managed by local governments), the Housing Corporation (now UR Urban Renaissance Agency), and local housing supply corporations. The Housing Corporation and local corporations also have housing complexes that they sold as condominiums. These differ in terms of resident demographics and management methods for common spaces. I have been involved for a long time through the operation of a community cafe at Dream Heights, a large-scale housing complex in Totsuka Ward, Yokohama, which is a condominium complex sold by the city and prefectural housing supply corporations.

Regarding public housing complexes, the Kanagawa Prefectural Housing Policy Council is currently discussing the utilization and regeneration of the entire stock of prefectural housing. I am also involved in the review of PFI projects (a type of public-private partnership) for reconstruction. There are more opportunities lately where I think about how things should be built while looking at actual design proposals, and I increasingly feel the difficulty, including sustainable management.

Since the topic of management entities has come up, I would next like to ask Mr. Nishino for his perspective from the supplier side.

The roots of the UR Urban Renaissance Agency lie in the Japan Housing Corporation, but today we handle various projects. Among them, the rental department, which we now call "UR Rental Housing," has gained recognition partly due to the effect of TV commercials.

There are about 710,000 UR rental housing units nationwide. In 2004, when the name became UR Urban Renaissance Agency, there were 770,000 units, but the number has been gradually decreasing due to government policies.

Reconstruction is also progressing, and most housing complexes from the late 1950s and early 1960s have been rebuilt or decommissioned. To date, 140,000 units built between the mid-1950s and early 1970s have been decommissioned. Since 100,000 new units have been supplied since the 1980s, the total has decreased by 40,000 units during this period. Furthermore, not only reconstruction but also seismic retrofitting has been completed for all units where it was feasible.

On the other hand, a significant portion of the 710,000 units consists of housing complexes supplied in large quantities during the 1960s and 1970s. What to do with them is a future challenge, but the occupancy rate for all the rental housing we handle still exceeds 91%. People might think there are many vacant units because the buildings are old and the residents are aging, but there is still a decent amount of demand. However, the aging rate is indeed rising.

On the other hand, looking at other data regarding the income of heads of households, the figures for the most recent year, 2020, have risen compared to five years ago. Possible reasons include an increase in dual-income households and a rise in the employment rate among the young-old population.

The challenge going forward is the presence of elderly residents who are living alone. To help them live long and fulfilling lives, we are forming communities and engaging in new initiatives that were unthinkable during the Housing Corporation era, such as monitoring services and opening markets (marches) in common areas.

91% is surprising. You mentioned that household income is rising; is that partly because there is a significant turnover in residents?

That's right. With the COVID-19 pandemic settling down, in the most recent year of 2023, 70,000 units—about 10% of the total—turned over. Incidentally, when rebuilding a housing complex, we stop filling vacancies as a matter of policy, and the 91% occupancy rate is a figure that includes these vacancies in the denominator.

Next, regarding the relationship between lifestyle, family, and housing complexes, Ms. Watanabe, what are your thoughts?

My involvement with housing complexes began when I wrote my master's thesis on the Takeyama Danchi in Midori Ward, Yokohama. That area was developed by clearing a mountain in the 1970s. Initially, it was only rental housing, but in the 1980s, condominium complexes were built. Around the year 2000, when I was writing my thesis, was exactly when the aging of the population began. I conducted a survey of elderly people's circle activities there.

Takeyama Danchi also saw a simultaneous move-in of residents in the 1970s. In the "housing sugoroku" (a metaphor for moving up the property ladder) discussed at the time, everyone was expected to eventually own their own home. However, the bubble burst in the early 90s, the timing to buy a house was lost, and many people continued to live in this complex and grew old there.

The "housing sugoroku" assumes rental-type housing complexes are temporary dwellings. Many residents of Takeyama Danchi did not think it would be their final home. I suspect this awareness was even higher among residents of public housing complexes, which were of slightly lower quality than those of the Housing Corporation or local corporations.

In 2019, I co-authored a book titled "The Beginning of the All-Middle-Class: A Postwar History of Housing Complexes and Living Time" (Seikyusha). Thousands of survey forms from a 1965 study covering six housing complexes remained at the University of Tokyo's Institute of Social Science. The oldest complex was Kawasaki municipal repatriate housing built in 1953, and the newest was Housing Corporation housing in Atsugi built in 1961. We restored the survey data from these six very different types of complexes and re-conducted a quantitative analysis.

From this data, we can see the lifestyle exactly at the time the housing complexes were established. As Japan entered the period of high economic growth, the image of life in a housing complex spread. In 1960, the visit of the then Crown Prince and Crown Princess to the Hibarigaoka Danchi became a hot topic, and life in a housing complex spread as something glamorous.

On the other hand, in the late 70s, housing complexes began to carry a negative image. Terms like "danchi-zoku" (housing complex tribe) and "kagi-ko" (latchkey kids) were born out of criticisms of a managed society. In our book, we analyze the continuity between the state of housing complexes before such images were attached and the present day. It can be said that the current state of housing complexes is the result of people who lived the lives recorded in those documents continuing to live there ever since. I feel the difficulty in talking about housing complexes lies in the fact that it was not initially assumed they would turn out this way.

Ms. Suzuki, you are currently living in a housing complex, aren't you?

Yes, it's not a typical Housing Corporation complex, but I live in a private condominium complex called "Shiki New Town" developed by Kajima Corporation 40 years ago. My impression of actually living there is "Housing complexes are the best!" (laughs). In my case, the timing of moving in coincided with the start of child-rearing, and I feel that housing complexes are truly easy for raising children, the community is solid, and I'm glad I moved there.

Shiki New Town has eight blocks in total, consisting of 3,300 units. Actually, I moved last year, but I didn't want to leave the block I was living in or the community, so I moved within the same block.

Even during the COVID-19 pandemic, children were playing within this block. That was possible because we generally know each other's faces. Schools were closed and park equipment couldn't be used, but even then, the plazas within the block became playgrounds for the children. Even if we didn't know names, we were familiar with each other, so there was a sense of security.

I think it's significant that the community ties are strong and we somehow know about each other. I don't know everyone in the block, but I think a sense of being a community has emerged.

The need to live a rich life matches the community, and for me, housing complexes are very exciting. I think the need to live richly within a housing complex is deep-rooted, and there are many interesting things about them. I take photos of such scenes and post them on Instagram with the hashtag "#TheJoyOfLivingInADanchi."

The story about not wanting to move even a block away is interesting. Is there a clear difference between the block you live in now and the other blocks?

Since all the residential buildings are built similarly, similar communities should theoretically emerge, but after 40 years, the cultures become completely different. For example, only the block I live in still has a children's association.

I think that's because there is a child-rearing generation, but is the influx of younger generations due to an increase in cases where units are rented out within the condominium complex?

Exactly. Interestingly, many households in our generation first move into a rental room and later buy a condominium unit. Since it's within commuting distance to central Tokyo and has lots of greenery, people who move in with the feeling of "let's just try living here" probably end up buying.

Could you tell us a bit more specifically what the "rich life" you mention refers to?

I think there are two aspects when talking about housing complexes: the hard (physical) side and the soft (social) or community side. The richness of the hard side is largely due to the separation of pedestrians and vehicles. Until about 10 years ago, I lived in Tokyo, and in front of my apartment was a road without a sidewalk, so I lived in constant fear. However, in a housing complex, I'm not so worried even if my child leaves the building on their own. There are block parks everywhere, and public facilities, post offices, police boxes, hospitals, and schools are nearby, offering the benefit of living within walking distance. Also, living in such an environment, you often run into acquaintances. Then small talk starts, which leads to the soft side of things.

The reason I like the block I live in is that the activities of the planting committee members who manage the block's greenery are very active. While taking a walk, I might receive cut flowers or some rapeseed blossoms. In the meantime, both I and my child end up meeting other friends. I feel that such richness of relationships is possible precisely because we live together in a cluster.

I see. Is the need for residents to live long and rich lives also increasing at UR?

A significant portion of the department that manages UR housing is now focused on work related to richness. Previously, there was a lot of maintenance and complaint handling, but recently we hear many voices wanting us to focus on environmental improvement.

For example, the topic of child-rearing came up; even though the occupancy rate of housing complexes is high, vacant shops in the facilities within the complexes are quite noticeable. Since many elderly people live in the complexes, an idea has come from within the company to match them with the child-rearing generation as a business, utilizing vacant spaces effectively and having the elderly help with child-rearing.

The creation of rich spaces like the separation of pedestrians and vehicles, the presence of functions like hospitals and shops within the block, and the existence of some kind of autonomous management organization. Were these already considered in the 1960s and 70s when housing complexes were supplied in large quantities? Or is the current state the result of functions shifting over time?

I haven't visited Shiki New Town, so I don't understand it perfectly, but the units for managing condominium complexes are not all the same, are they? Shiki New Town probably has a management association for each of the eight blocks, and everyone manages it together by holding a shared interest in the land within each block.

The people living there have an awareness that "this place belongs to us," and while some blocks take a proactive approach to how to use the shared space effectively, others do not. I feel that in the block where Ms. Suzuki lives, the space was originally rich, and the time has come where it can be used richly through just the right kind of interaction.

UR rental housing is managed by Nihon Sogo Jusetsu (JS), which is commissioned by UR. I think both UR and JS are in a situation where they don't yet have enough experience in how to create mechanisms for people to participate and how to operate them stably. But I think if they find some clever ways, they can create the kind of richness Ms. Suzuki is experiencing now.

That's exactly right. Our block happens to be able to use the hardware well, but that is quite dependent on specific individuals. In fact, the elderly person serving as the planting committee member is a wonderful person who skillfully involves those around them. It's a block of about 500 units, but I feel the influence of one person is significant.

Conversely, under a difficult neighborhood association president, a block within the same complex can have strict rules. Recently, a very wonderful neighborhood association president passed away, and I was made to think about autonomous management organizations, as relying too much on one person can jeopardize subsequent management.

Until now, housing complex management has centered on hardware. However, I would like to see professionals who specialize in community building—how to use this hardware well to create a rich life—present there as well. Management fees are a very large amount every month, so I want them to squeeze out even just a few percent from that. In fact, management fees should exist for such things.

On the other hand, if everything starts to be solved with money, there is a risk that the autonomous actions of residents, like in our block, will disappear. I thought that might have its own negative side.

One of my specialties is NPO theory, and I thought the current story is similar to the difficulties of NPOs. Everyone originally gathers voluntarily, but to maintain and continue activities, they conduct business there and hire someone to be stationed by earning some kind of income. In such a process, there are cases that go well and those that don't. As Ms. Suzuki says, if the relationship between the "person who does things" and the "side that has things done for them" becomes fixed, there is a risk that only demands will emerge. Conversely, if a sense of community can be maintained, people can get along to some extent in a reciprocal relationship. That balance is the difficult part.

I would like to delve a little deeper using "richness" as a keyword. While there are people in 2023 who say "Housing complexes are the best!", I believe the supply of housing complexes also progressed in the 60s and 70s with the aim of realizing a certain kind of richness.

Is the richness of that time the same as modern richness? Or has the substance of richness changed with the times, and the space of the housing complex is being redefined in a new form after coming full circle? Ms. Watanabe, what do you think?

Regarding richness, I think the objects of comparison are completely different. In the 1950s and 60s, stainless steel kitchens were a huge topic in housing complexes. Until then, Japanese houses were basically centered around dirt floors (doma), and cleaning and laundry were all centered there, so there were drawbacks like back pain from housework, difficulty with fire, and water sources being far away.

This was replaced by shiny stainless steel that doesn't corrode, and the parts that support the structure of life, such as water, electricity, and gas, began to be supplied as a system. Richness was found precisely in the parts that fundamentally changed the quality of housework.

Also, the household structure is significantly different between now and then. For example, among the residents of the six housing complexes in 1965 analyzed in "The Beginning of the All-Middle-Class," households consisting only of a couple were about 11%, and nearly 90% were couple-plus-children households. Three-generation cohabitation was seen in a very small portion, but that was exceptional.

However, looking at Japan as a whole at the time, three-generation cohabitation accounted for more than 30% of households and was experienced by many people. Therefore, around 1965, as the country moved from the large family system to the nuclear family, it can be said that housing complexes were a symbol of the glamorous richness that represented the nuclear family.

Furthermore, I think it was significant that it was an era when the way men in those nuclear families worked changed to wage labor. The work style of working at a company was still new around the 1950s, when the agricultural population still accounted for 30 to 40%. In other words, as the nuclear family lifestyle we imagine was being established, life in a housing complex must have looked rich.

In contrast, is the richness Ms. Suzuki speaks of more about communication or the peace of mind brought about by it?

That's right. There is a richness precisely because one feels that things like the trust in people who greet you within the same block, which Ms. Suzuki felt while raising children, or not having to worry even if children go somewhere out of sight, cannot be obtained in condominiums in central Tokyo.

Stainless steel kitchens looked rich in comparison to dirt floors. We don't feel richness in stainless steel now, but we do feel richness in being able to not worry even if we take our eyes off our children. I think that suggests new possibilities for housing complexes.

In the 1960s, there certainly were relationships in Japan where neighbors would call out to each other or an uncle from next door would scold someone else's child. It was probably in the 70s that this transformed and disappeared.

Until then, trust in the neighborhood was the base, and one probably couldn't lead a sufficient life without having such relationships. However, I think such trust declined in a way that suggested it's better to leave things to a larger social system to gain individual freedom, and that life can be perfectly fine without mutual trust among residents.

However, when considering specific life situations now, as Ms. Suzuki says, it is easier and richer to live with trust in the neighborhood. That is felt as something more necessary than house size, equipment, or asset value. I think it's also related to relationships with family and parents living apart, but the momentum to rediscover and re-evaluate the richness of relationships with others in the neighborhood is growing.

But while I think the awareness of trying to regain this trust exists potentially in society, I feel it hasn't been fully realized yet. In some housing complexes, relationships and the way space is used are changing in visible ways, so I wonder if we can spread this a bit more to society. I feel the number of people with this awareness is gradually increasing.

The choice to let go of trust in the neighborhood and leave it to the system was the lifestyle after Japan's high economic growth. But I think at some stage, values began to emerge that following such a vector is exhausting or stifling. And while it's also important to know when that started, at a certain point, a certain number of people began to say that trust in the neighborhood is important.

Assuming trust in the neighborhood is an important element, can this trust-building be realized relatively easily precisely because it is a housing complex? If so, why is that? Ms. Suzuki, do you feel that you were able to build the current relationships precisely because it is a housing complex?

I do. I think Mr. Oe's point about leaving trust to the system is correct, but being able to buy child-rearing as a service is actually a painful thing.

For example, my children are now 8 and 10, so they can stay home alone, but when I go out, I make sure to check in with a neighbor I know. I ask, "Are you home?" and if they say "Yes," I tell my children, "If anything happens, go to that house." If you have that kind of relationship, there's no need to hire a babysitter.

The reason why such things are possible in a housing complex is, I think, because there is shared public space. By having shared space outside, I think an awareness of being in a shared place is born through playing there, walking the dog, or having small talk. You could even call it an "extended garden." I think being there makes becoming friends a natural act.

This is different from joining a "certain association" and getting to know "Mr./Ms. So-and-so"; it's more like starting with just greetings with someone you often run into while walking, then gradually having small talk, and as you play in the plaza, you start to get along and say, "Want to come over?" when it starts raining. I think the fact that housing complexes share outside space is a big factor.

The potential of greenery is also very large, and in my housing complex, communication through greenery often occurs. Saying the flowers are beautiful or that this wild herb is edible is unique to housing complexes with shared spaces.

Mr. Nishino, are there many cases where people commit to such shared spaces, take care of them, or conduct various activities?

In UR rental housing, the actual management of greenery is handled by a contracted company, so such communication might be less likely to occur. However, Japanese people like places with lawns, and apparently, everyone sits down when you lay turf. In UR rental housing, we provide large lawn areas in public spaces, and it seems that when turf is laid in places where the distance between buildings is wide, someone sits there, and then someone else comes along, sowing the seeds of communication. There is also data that lawns become cool spots, which is an environmental benefit.

Public spaces with lawns are indeed one of the commons. The markets that Ms. Suzuki is researching and practicing are also initiatives to form a commons.

The housing complex market is held with about 30 shops by renting a nearby "neighborhood park." It's a collection of small shops, but by gathering individual shops, the atmosphere and function of the place can be changed. Markets are indispensable to life, so much so that the beginning of cities is said to be places where people gathered to barter goods.

Shopping in modern Japan has been left to systems like supermarkets and the internet. But in a market, not only can things made in the region be consumed in the region, but there is also the goodness of primitive commerce where people can buy and sell things while talking face-to-face.

Looking at it from the perspective of the regional economy, such markets in London reportedly create 13,000 full-time jobs. In Japan, they tend to be seen as temporary events, but they can be positioned as an urban strategy and carried out as food policy or food supply for low-income groups. We hold markets in housing complexes also with the desire to create a place that belongs to no one.

A community is not something you can create by saying, "Let's create one." But commerce is something anyone can participate in without a specific reason. In the market, we always make sure to have bread and vegetable shops that everyone buys from, with the aim that we can create a community through commerce.

That's interesting. It's exciting because I can almost see the scene of the market in my mind.

On the other hand, as is commonly said, I don't think we can avoid touching upon the challenges that danchi are currently facing, starting with the aging population. Mr. Oe, what are your thoughts?

The aging of residents is one thing, but in recent years, there has been an increasing number of cases where many foreign residents live in danchi. I think we should mention the issue of lack of communication with these new residents.

Shibazono Danchi in Saitama Prefecture has a particularly high ratio of foreign residents, and the public Icho Danchi on the border of Yamato City and Yokohama City in Kanagawa Prefecture is also known for its high ratio of foreign residents.

The problem of lack of communication among residents has been pointed out in these danchi for a long time. People often talk about multicultural coexistence, but as long-time residents gradually disappear and the number of people who moved in later increases, I think the mechanisms for how to realize coexistence will also change.

On the other hand, other challenges facing danchi include responding to aging and deterioration, and the utilization of vacant stores, but it's not as if these issues are only serious in danchi.

Danchi were planned and built in the suburbs to accommodate housing needs as cities expanded. The large-scale ones are called 'New Towns,' but the problems of the suburbs as a whole are projected onto danchi and New Towns. Out of the 37 million people in the Tokyo metropolitan area (one metropolis and three prefectures), there are just under 10 million in the 23 wards, meaning over 20 million are outside of them. The challenges of the suburbs affect all of those 20-plus million people. I think it's necessary to view suburban challenges as being visible in a concentrated way within danchi.

I think the deterioration of the danchi themselves is also linked to the challenge of creating a process for adjusting various interests and making decisions when carrying out reconstruction. Mr. Nishino, what do you think?

Since UR rental housing is owned solely by UR, we don't have to seek legal consensus like in a condominium, but we must gain the understanding of the residents for them to relocate. Even if they are to return, we have them live in temporary housing by arranging another UR danchi for them.

When arranging other danchi, it's rare to get 100 out of 100 people to agree, but we have a rule where we hold an explanatory meeting, spend two years explaining things properly, and then start the reconstruction concretely after gaining understanding for the relocation. In the case of danchi where a strong community has been formed, there are sometimes requests to move together or return together.

Are there any symbolic challenges or initiatives from UR's perspective?

Since we are strictly in the rental housing business, we must invest costs into the safety and security of the residents. Those costs are recovered through rent, but balancing the two is quite a high hurdle.

Also, as a social mission, we are increasingly involved in what we call 'Regional Medical and Welfare Hub Formation,' where we utilize land created by reconstruction to attract medical and welfare hubs open to the community, or partner with local governments and local NPOs to provide monitoring and regional support.

I feel that depending on the location, some danchi can successfully utilize the land after reconstruction while others find it difficult. What are the challenges when rebuilding old danchi?

Yes. I mentioned an occupancy rate of 91%, and the reason we can maintain that is because the rent levels and demand are in balance. However, such danchi are often in suburbs 10 or 15 minutes by bus from a private railway station; while the occupancy rate goes up, the management side is quite difficult in terms of the balance with rent levels.

I said there are currently 710,000 units, but that will likely decrease a bit in the future. This is because there are cases where costs cannot be recovered through rent even if reconstruction is carried out. In such cases, current residents will be asked to move to other danchi after gaining their understanding, but one of our management challenges is how to downsize while ensuring the residential stability of the residents.

Ms. Watanabe, what are your thoughts on the contemporary challenges of danchi?

I suppose it's the aging population and areas with a high ratio of foreign residents. Foreign residency is particularly prominent in public housing danchi; since it's difficult for foreigners to rent housing in Japan, they inevitably end up gathering there. For example, Shibazono Danchi, Nishikasai Danchi, or industrial cities like Toyota City. Because the ratio of foreign residents increases, issues of consensus-building also arise.

Japanese danchi have a unique management style with a dual structure of a management association and a neighborhood association. While these can sometimes create good governance, for someone who doesn't know the circumstances, the system is hard to understand. It's a quite difficult challenge to achieve coexistence in a situation where there's a system that's hard to explain to begin with, different languages, different cultures, and different age groups and family styles.

Aging is also a crucial issue, of course, but where this point becomes a serious problem is in public housing. This is because the rent hasn't changed for a long time. Public housing uses a system where rent is determined by the income of the tenant household, so low-income elderly people can continue to live there at low rent.

At UR, the current rule is to review rent every two years.

That's right. On the other hand, you could say that because rent doesn't change in public housing, it creates a situation where it's hard for the elderly to leave. Even though the environment is not barrier-free at all and not necessarily a good living environment, there are no places in the market where they can move to at an equivalent rent level. New housing supply by local governments is also not happening amidst this population decline. Consequently, 60% or 70% of the residents in aging public housing are elderly. In such a situation, talk of mutual support becomes unrealistic.

A characteristic of danchi is that the people who have lived there for many years started with roughly the same age group and income. If there is turnover, it becomes diverse to some extent, but danchi with a high proportion of elderly residents are those that did not become diverse. In truth, a mechanism to create diversity was needed somewhere, but it hasn't been incorporated into housing policy until now.

That said, it's hard to break down something that has become fixed. When the National Stadium was rebuilt, the eviction of Kasumigaoka Danchi became an issue. Of course, I understand the feelings of the residents, but I can't help but think there was a problem with the policy that forced us to accept that rent level in that location. I think what's happening in danchi is not just aging, but aging in a situation where residents are becoming unable to move.

The issue of foreign residency should also naturally be able to find more diverse forms in the market, but the reality is difficult. That kind of contradiction is concentrated in danchi, and various problems are occurring in a narrow space.

On the other hand, danchi have the merit of making it easier to provide services collectively by living together. For example, an NPO to support foreigners was created in Icho Danchi. The fact that it's a concentrated residential area for the elderly can also be a merit depending on how you think about it. It's possible to build services targeting a specific resident group.

Actually, even in public housing, there are situations where the elderly are being replaced. There are a very large number of applications from elderly people for public housing. Conversely, private rental housing is very strict regarding the occupancy of elderly people, so the demand for public housing is high in terms of being able to live with peace of mind. Looking at this situation, I think there's a positive side where it becomes easier to assemble public services for the elderly, or even private and non-profit services.

That's true. Toyama Danchi in Shinjuku is a danchi where 60% of the residents are elderly, but on the first floor, there's a space called 'Machikado Hokenshitsu' (Corner Health Room) operated by nurses. I think such services have the advantage of being easy to reach precisely because it's a region at the forefront of these issues.

On the other hand, Toyama Danchi is large-scale and succeeds partly because of its location. It's a harsh reality for suburban municipal danchi with only two or three buildings. It's important to think about these challenges according to each situation. I don't think danchi have no future, but it's a fact that there are many problems.

In the context of the story about reclaiming trust in neighbors that had been left to the system, there are situations where community activities are being born, and on the other hand, there are serious situations that cannot be handled by that alone. How can we lead those to solutions as policy issues? It seems there's an aspect where the space of the danchi is taking on all the contradictions our society currently holds, such as contract issues for foreign residents, elderly people living alone or needing care, and the challenges faced by low-income earners.

What I feel as a danchi resident is that the problem is that everyone would rather not participate in the activities of the management association or neighborhood association if possible. If things continue like this as the population ages, I feel it will just gradually weaken. I mentioned earlier that the children's association survived, but actually, this year I said, 'I'll be the chairperson, so please don't dissolve it.' While local festivals are also decreasing, I think we haven't seen the solution for how to maintain motivation at all yet.

On the other hand, there are quite a few cases of creating new cafes or local facilities in shopping streets that had become vacant stores, so I think new communities might be born from such places.

I grew up in a detached house in a New Town, and such places might be discarded if no one lives there and no one takes an interest. However, in danchi, many people gather, have mutual interest, and have feelings for the place. Even if there are challenges, I've seen many times how the situation changes completely when there's even one 'interesting person' who can take action when a problem becomes visible.

The 'interesting people' Suzuki mentions are people you rarely meet through the routes of community organizations like neighborhood associations or management associations. How to get those people to come forward is something I was thinking about at Yokodai Danchi in Yokohama, where I was involved in area management for many years.

In Yokodai, we opened two vacant stores as a free space called 'CC Lab.' While promoting a project called 'Renaissance in Yokodai,' we made the rent free, put money into the operation, and tried to unearth activities within the region. In Yokodai, the station-front space designed by Kengo Kuma and the outdoor space of the North Danchi handled by Kashiwa Sato are wonderful, but at the same time, I felt a real response to the attempt to create a place like CC Lab. Unearthing new human resources and resources is very important.

Communities like neighborhood associations and residents' associations should naturally exist, but there's a limit to what they can do alone. But by having multiple layers, various people can access them. I think suburban communities until now have had few such layers.

Of course, I think there were various NPO activities, but those activities often lacked regionality, while the region was handled in a public-interest way by the neighborhood associations that firmly solidified the area. I think it would be good if a mechanism was unearthed where people could come out in a way that is more rooted in the region and different from neighborhood associations.

In fact, in Yokodai, the people from the neighborhood associations were surprised to see CC Lab and realize there were so many different activities. They weren't negative about them at all, and an atmosphere of 'let's do something together' was created, which I think is something to be valued in the Yokodai experiment.

The case of Yokodai is a key story for thinking about the future of danchi. From Mr. Nishino's position, are there any clues for thinking about what comes next?

When I talk to private business operators, they often say, 'Danchi are a treasure trove.' They want to try various things in danchi. That might be a kind of experiment or a business, but people from various industries are thinking they want to do something in danchi.

Since UR is in the position of managing rental housing, we used to keep our distance from such initiatives, but things have changed recently. For example, we are conducting test runs for autonomous driving within danchi, providing monitoring services for the elderly, or testing DX technology.

I feel that if we successfully incorporate the ideas of these private-sector people and link them to business, we might be able to reach areas that were lacking until now.

Returning to the community is a good thing, of course, but I feel that new technology will be necessary when thinking about how to supplement the parts that don't run smoothly. Danchi might be a space where it's easy to implement new technology.

That's a very important point about danchi anticipating the future. From that perspective, I feel the potential for universities and educational institutions to get involved.

With support, I am also working on an activity called 'Mirai no Machi wo Tsukuru Lab' (Lab for Creating the Town of the Future) with colleagues from SFC. What I find interesting is that when young students get involved in regional issues, the relationships in the region change slightly. For example, I've witnessed children and elderly people looking forward to time spent talking with students, and small exchanges occurring.

Collaboration between universities and danchi can also be seen in regional cities. Toyoake Danchi in Toyoake City, Aichi Prefecture, has Fujita Health University nearby. Toyoake Danchi is old and consists of five-story buildings without elevators. There, elderly people who lived on the 4th and 5th floors moved to the 1st and 2nd floors, and the 4th and 5th floors are rented cheaply to medical students. Then, day services related to community-based integrated care entered the vacant stores, and that has become a kind of internship site for the Fujita Health University students.

For the students, it's a cheap place to live and an internship site, and the other residents become the users of the services. Moreover, for the elderly, exchange with the younger generation has become the best rehabilitation for social participation.

Even during the COVID-19 pandemic, having students nearby apparently led to things like being taught how to use Zoom. I think this is also a merit of living together. The fact that challenges create opportunities for residents to interact with each other is unique to danchi.

It's not just involvement with students; there are aspects triggered by child-rearing like with Mr. Suzuki, and I think there's an interesting quality where intergenerational exchange with the elderly leads to their own well-being.

That relates to the earlier discussion about how to design diversity within danchi.

Students leave after four years, but conversely, I think it's precisely because they leave that it's easy to create opportunities for exchange.

Mr. Suzuki, what is the key for you when thinking about the future of danchi?

I think danchi used to have a dark image of a managed society. The famous American journalist Jane Jacobs also once criticized danchi for lacking diversity. However, many people who live there say they like their danchi, and this is true overseas as well. Knowing both of those opinions, I started living in Shiki New Town, and it turned out to be really good once I actually lived there.

I think danchi originally existed as a symbol of modernization, but now they are trying to become a place to reclaim human relationships, community, and exchange with local people as a 'commons' once again. Moreover, because they have problems, there's an aspect where experiments can be done, which makes me very positive, and it's an opportunity for people who want to make something positive happen. I felt that today's talk itself suggests the future of danchi.

It sounds more positive and fun when Mr. Suzuki says it than when I, in my 70s, say it (laughs). I hope the experiments and commons currently taking place will be opened up a bit more to the surrounding urban areas. One way to look at it is to view danchi as something that people living nearby can also use together.

On the other hand, there are challenges there too. When people from outside come into a place that has been managed with one's own management fees, or managed as one's own property in the case of a condominium danchi, it becomes necessary to think about how to harmonize and how to bear the costs. However, I think it's very important to try thinking about danchi that are open to the region by overcoming such challenges.

I think danchi have that many resources. They can conduct experiments and have the human resources, so the potential is very large. And since the problems of the suburbs as a whole are appearing in a concentrated way, those solutions can be spread to the suburbs as a whole. I feel that we can draw such a large vision from danchi.

What I felt from everyone's talk today was that the flat image of danchi and the actual reality are quite different. Danchi are very diverse, three-dimensional, and colorful existences, and I thought we should look again at the richness and potential of danchi. Thinking about the future of regions and suburbs is probably very close to thinking about the way our lifestyles should be. Danchi are likely spaces that provide important suggestions for thinking about that.

Thank you very much for today.