[Feature: Confronting the Gender Gap] Roundtable Discussion: Confronting the Gender Gap

Thank you very much for coming today despite your busy schedules. I understand that today's session will be the first all-female opening roundtable discussion for the Mita-hyoron.

Last year, "30% Club Japan" was established with the aim of increasing the proportion of women on corporate boards, and Ms. Goto was appointed as Vice Chair. As universities are also participating in this project, Keio University was invited to join, and President Haseyama has become a member.

While movements for women's empowerment are becoming more active in Japan like this, Japan's ranking in the World Economic Forum's "Gender Gap Index" released last year fell significantly from 110th the previous year to 121st. Looking at this, I feel that women's empowerment in Japan is still only halfway there.

Given this situation, we have invited female executives who are active on the front lines of corporate management today to discuss the realization of a society where women can thrive.

First, Ms. Goto, could you explain the purpose of 30% Club Japan?

The 30% Club itself is a non-profit global campaign launched in the UK in 2010. It is currently active in 14 countries, and the number of participating countries continues to grow. It started because the percentage of women in top corporate management positions, such as directors, remained low and was not growing in the UK. While the introduction of quotas was being advocated, the idea was that "rather than being forced from above, the corporate side should increase the ratio of female management through its own efforts."

In the UK, Deloitte participated as one of the founding members, and because of that connection, we decided to support the launch in Japan.

The goal is to raise the ratio of women—who are the largest minority among the diversity in key management decision-making bodies, including boards of directors—to a healthy level. We believe a healthy balance contributes to strengthening corporate governance, promoting sustainable growth, improving international competitiveness, and ultimately building a sustainable Japanese society. Since increasing the ratio of women in key decision-making bodies cannot be discussed without promoting the overall advancement and appointment of women, we will also conduct activities for that purpose.

People who want to promote this through the commitment of corporate top management themselves gather to exchange various opinions and share know-how to move forward.

How many companies are currently involved?

There are 51 members in total, 20 of whom are from companies in Japan's TOPIX 100 and 400.

Recently, we signed a memorandum of understanding on cooperation regarding the promotion of women's empowerment with Keidanren (Japan Business Federation), and we intend to work together to exchange information and opinions, hold events, and disseminate information externally. The important thing is to have the heads of major companies participate as a "personal matter." That is the shortcut to changing Japanese society.

We are also creating various working groups. Currently, the most active one is the Investors Group. In addition, a Media Group has also been launched.

I would definitely like to see it develop significantly.

Indeed. To further revitalize Japan and increase the speed of growth, I want to realize a society where women can thrive.

The club's goal is to make the proportion of women in top-level positions, including auditors and executive officers, 30% by 2030. However, we are not asking every company to absolutely reach that point; rather, we tell them it is fine if each company sets a target value that suits them and the top management commits to leading toward it.

Thank you. Since we have people from various industries here today, I would like to hear about your respective fields. Ms. Machida, shall we start with you?

I have been the executive in charge of the Women's Project since 2016. This is a network of many related media and projects within the company and group companies. It was launched to support women at various stages of life, with different ages and lifestyles, and to help them be active and energetic in society, and it continues to this day.

The recent "121st in the Gender Gap Index" was a shock. However, a crisis is an opportunity. I believe that by bringing together people who share a sense of crisis and awareness of the issues, we can become a force for changing society, and I think the media has a role to play there.

On March 3, our GLOBE editorial department and Ochanomizu University will co-host an International Women's Day commemorative symposium titled "We at 121st: How to Change the Gender Gap," with special cooperation from the New York Times, inviting gender-related editors and directors from the US (Note: Postponed due to the spread of COVID-19).

Also, in the "Dear Girls" print project held every year on International Women's Day on March 8, we handle themes surrounding women; for example, last year we featured "unconscious bias." A booklet summarizing the series of articles is also used in high school and university classes. We have received feedback that using it in class provided an opportunity for students to think.

Ms. Kudo, since you are in banking, I imagine it is a workplace with many women. Is there anything you are doing to ensure that women can definitely thrive in society?

Ranking 121st in the Gender Gap Index is certainly a shocking number, but looking around me, I feel that the treatment of women and the places where they can be active are improving. I think the reason this number was poor is the small number of women in top management and the lack of women's advancement into the world of politics.

For example, looking at the young employees at our bank, I think they have a mindset of working without distinction between men and women.

That's true. When I have meetings, I see women more often than before.

It has really become a normal thing. On the other hand, for the management layer and politicians, there is the accumulation of past history, so I think there is a difficulty in that the ratio of women cannot be raised immediately.

In Japanese society, seniority still exists, so things like fast-track appointments are difficult. There is also the traditional corporate culture, so I think time is also necessary.

What about the initiatives at Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corporation?

Since a bank's most important management resource is its people, we position human diversity and making the most of people as our greatest growth strategy. Based on that thinking, we have been working on promoting women's empowerment since around 2005. At first, it was about hiring a certain number of women and providing support for work-life balance so they "don't quit." Next, we focused on career support.

I think the support systems for childcare leave and such are substantial. When considering career support, it is important whether women are able to advance their careers, and for that, it is necessary for women to enter decision-making arenas. This is not just about management; it must be increased more in daily operations.

Childcare leave and reduced working hour systems are things that society and companies should provide. We should have them work full-time as much as possible and promote teleworking or make working hours flexible so they can return to society quickly after childcare leave. Without these measures, no matter how many numbers the government sets or how much they push, women's experience levels won't increase, so I think it will be difficult for them to thrive.

Regarding taking on management positions, women tend to raise the hurdles for themselves, so we conduct leadership training for women at two different levels.

Also, we need to respond to differences in family structures. Currently, dual-income households make up 20% of those in their 40s, but 80% of those in their 20s. As a bank, we support men's participation in childcare, and in terms of support for balancing work and nursing care, our group company SMBC Nikko Securities has created work systems such as three-day or four-day work weeks.

Ms. Otani, I imagine you have experienced various companies and felt the differences between industries firsthand.

I first worked at a Japanese company for about nine years, then did marketing at foreign-affiliated companies for about 20 years, and returned to a Japanese company the year before last.

Comparing when I was at a Japanese company before and returning to one now, I feel that "it is progressing, but quite slowly." There are parts where I think, has it only progressed this much after 20 years? At the foreign-affiliated companies where I worked, there was no gender gap, and it was common to raise your hand and go for a position if there was an opportunity. For overseas assignments as well, people with the ability who wanted to go went, regardless of gender. Of course, you had to take responsibility, but I almost never felt discriminated against as a woman there.

At the Japanese company where I first worked, there were transfers every two years even if you got married or had children, so I felt I couldn't build my life as I wanted. I wanted a way of working where I could hone my own area of expertise and stay in Tokyo, so I changed jobs to a foreign-affiliated company and decided to gain experience in the marketing field.

At my current workplace, Lawson, we have introduced various systems recommended by the government, but there aren't many women who want to be in management. I even hear voices saying, "Don't fast-track me." Even if I say, "You can do it," the number of people who actively raise their hands is limited.

Nearly half of the female directors are outside directors; there are no women yet who have risen through the ranks from within, and I also joined as an executive from the outside. We are doing training so they can rise from within and have introduced support systems like maternity and childcare leave that I didn't have and am envious of, but the pace is quite slow.

As you say, I think women have a tendency to hesitate to raise their hands even when there is a chance, or to be cautious about raising their hands themselves.

The female staff at Keio University are also very talented, and ideally, I would like to see more of them active in management positions, but they are not raising their hands as much as I would hope. Perhaps because they are talented, they set high hurdles for themselves and are hesitant to take on management positions that involve the risk of failure and responsibility. I also feel that a Japanese mentality that is passive toward challenges is in the background.

That is exactly right. In our group as well, becoming a manager seems to be a very high hurdle. There are people who step back saying, "I haven't received education to exercise leadership," or "I can't lead men." It is important not just to say "Keep it up, keep it up," but to create systems where they can move up with peace of mind.

Therefore, I am thinking of introducing a sponsorship system. Currently, it is only for the management layer, but it is a system that stays close to them not only when they are moving up their career but also in their work beyond that, providing multifaceted advice.

In the case of men, I think there is naturally a "pull" from superiors, and this is something we do consciously. If you just promote them to management and throw them out to do their best on their own, I think it's tough, especially for women. For men, networks seem to form naturally, and everyone seems to support them normally.

Sponsorship can be replaced by the word mentor, but Ms. Kudo, how is it at the bank?

At our bank, we have a mentoring system for women around the time they become section managers. It is not at the level of management members or department head candidates.

We, on the other hand, are strengthening from the top, and we have introduced the system at the point where we decide whether or not to make someone a next board member, and I am looking after several people myself. It's not just about mentoring; it's about using the hierarchical relationship to provide opportunities for challenges and actively supporting them.

Since there are only a few women at the executive level, we are also trying to create a system where men can pull women up.

That's a good initiative. I didn't have a mentor myself, but since being an executive is an important duty, I thought it would be good to have someone who can give advice around the time of appointment.

I don't know if men receive advice through something other than a mentor system, but in our long history, there are times when I feel that men somehow sniff things out in various places.

I think so too. Networks are formed spontaneously. I don't know if it's built into the DNA (laughs), but it's very difficult when a woman is suddenly dropped into an all-male environment and told to be active.

Exactly. If someone says, "You're not in a position to be taught, are you?" that might be true, but I think it's different just to have them tell me about their experiences and methods, or give me feedback.

Also, perhaps Japanese companies are weak in general management education, regardless of whether it's for men or women.

When people think of media, especially newspapers, there's a lone-wolf image regardless of gender, but how is the mass media industry?

At our company, we don't have a mentor system regardless of whether someone is male or female. Since people go through each position and gain experience, it might not have been needed much.

However, in my case, because I have opportunities to interact with external companies as the person in charge of the women's project, I often hear that "the more serious a woman is, the less likely she is to raise her hand for management." But if you give such people a little push and put them in a post, examples of "Oh, I can do it" increase. When role models with various backgrounds increase like that, young people can feel at ease and take a step forward.

When I interviewed Ms. Atsuko Muraki, former Vice Minister of Health, Labour and Welfare last week (published in the evening edition of the Asahi Shimbun on March 6), she said that those who raise their hands are not necessarily the ones who can do the job. Rather, she said that hesitant and modest people often turn out to be very capable once they try. Therefore, I think support from those around them is very important so they can seize opportunities without hesitation.

After that, it's top leadership. Whether they can continuously show a strong will. However, if you push it too hard, negative opinions like "We forced her into the position, but she's no good" will inevitably come out. Instead, give a push to those who are hesitating, saying, "Why don't you try?" If those people produce results, it becomes a success story, and if it's proven that it wasn't an impossible task, the number of people following them will increase.

To improve the Gender Gap Index, it is essential to create a trend where many companies move forward with a sense of ownership and speed. That will also lead to women's power being further demonstrated amid a declining birthrate and aging population.

I would like to ask what you all think about affirmative action (positive measures for correction). Affirmative action is good in the sense of actively appointing women, but it is sometimes said to be reverse discrimination. Some universities implement it in faculty recruitment, but how is it at your organizations?

In our Deloitte Tohmatsu Group, we have people in various professions, from certified public accountants and tax accountants to consultants and lawyers, but basically, like a bank, people are our assets. How to have talented people comfortably express their individuality and work freely directly leads to customer satisfaction.

It is very important to generate innovative and flexible thinking from such an environment, and for that purpose, unearthing buried women and having them demonstrate their full potential has become a management issue.

Until a little while ago, promoting women's empowerment felt like a social contribution, but now I think it is an essential management strategy that must be done. Therefore, we have created a D&I (Diversity & Inclusion) committee directly under the CEO and are promoting the utilization of women under a strong commitment to set and achieve numerical targets.

Since we set very ambitious numerical targets, it's not exactly affirmative action within that, but sometimes it might seem like we are prioritizing women.

I am also asked within the company if men are being discriminated against by prioritizing women. At those times, I say that women have been discriminated against until now. While you all were wearing platform shoes (getting a leg up), those women were wearing iron clogs and doing their best while suffering. I say, "Isn't it okay to take off those iron clogs for a bit?"

It means "We will do it until it becomes equal." I think it's important for the top management not to yield to resistance and to work hard without flinching.

At the foreign-affiliated companies where I worked, there was no affirmative action. There were companies where about half of the management positions were held by women, or where there were already more women among the executives.

In Japanese companies, men go out for drinks or go to smoke together, and important decisions are sometimes made there. They talk in those unofficial places, and things somehow go in that direction. Women aren't invited there and can't get in, so I feel a bit of a wall there.

That's very true. Now, we tell people to do decision-making inclusively, and we thoroughly view it as a problem when decisions are made in such informal settings. It's no good to lay the groundwork somewhere unknown and decide things secretly. We must change the culture.

It's difficult, isn't it? Also, when you question women who don't actively want to be managers, they ultimately say, "I'll end up having to do housework and childcare as a 'one-op' (by myself)."

Men just don't come home early. They say, "Why do I always have to be the one to pick up the kids, make dinner, and put them to bed by myself?" Then, naturally, they say, "Management is impossible." While it's important to have mentors within the company, I honestly think it's difficult unless the systems at home and in society are also in place.

In a 2016 survey by the Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications, the daily time spent on housework and childcare for couples with children under six was 7 hours and 34 minutes for women, compared to 1 hour and 23 minutes for men. Although there is a slight upward trend for men, this extreme difference ultimately leads to the burden falling only on women. That is also a major reason for hesitating to take on management positions. This must be changed along with the issue of social work styles.

That's right. In a longitudinal survey of adults by the Ministry of Health, Labour and Welfare conducted on those aged 26 to 35, 81.4% of women continued working after marriage. I think there is a large difference in awareness between generations regarding dual-income households.

The generation gap is also large, isn't it? Currently, the people deciding company systems and measures are in their 40s or older, so the gap between the rule-makers and the rule-users might not be fully bridged.

On the other hand, I don't mean to throw cold water on the conversation, but in cases where women have become corporate heads overseas, there are also cases where the men have quit their jobs. As things get very busy, I think there are times when you might have to rely on one partner for household matters. Until now, women were in the position of following. I hope it becomes possible to choose roles freely and for both women and men to do so without prejudice.

My husband is a "full-time househusband."

There are people like that at our bank too. I think that's fine.

I also have my husband handle most of the housework. I can't exactly say that with a lot of pride, though (laughs).

The problem is unconscious bias. For example, only the woman might be told by both sets of parents when they get married, "You're going to be a full-time housewife, right?" or when they have a child, "When are you quitting your job?"

In the end, the people around us and our supervisors have shown this kind of unconscious bias—thinking it's only natural because of the cultural background up until now, with no ill intent. This has been ingrained in both men and women without them even realizing it.

While this is also a role for the media, it is important to increase awareness. I think things will change significantly if business owners, managers, and those around us interact with others with self-awareness.

I'm sure everyone has faced various hardships to reach their current positions. While there are likely advantages to being a woman, I imagine you have also had many experiences where you had to break through an invisible glass ceiling.

Ms. Machida and I are from the generation before the Equal Employment Opportunity Act. In a job interview, I was told, "A woman's happiness lies in marriage and raising children, so why did you become a certified public accountant?" I quickly excused myself from that accounting firm and went to a foreign-affiliated one. If I start talking about that era, there'll be no end to it (laughs), but fortunately, I have never experienced terrible discrimination in my work.

When I joined the firm, there was only one female senior, and she told me, "It's okay. You won't be discriminated against. You just have to work twice as hard as the men." I thought, "I see," and worked long hours, sacrificing a lot of my private life. That's a problematic way of working nowadays, though.

Because of that, and because there were so few women that I stood out by being just a little better than others, I think I was given various opportunities. I took on those small chances positively without thinking that I might not be able to do it.

In my case, the challenges increased the higher I went. When working as a specialist, you just need to focus on self-improvement, but when it comes to managing an organization, the required skills are completely different.

Leadership becomes necessary, you have to move people, and I was constantly worried about how to unite everyone's hearts. I think it would have been better if there had been more opportunities to experience that in stages or to learn it systematically.

In particular, the job of unifying an organization cross-functionally at the executive level was a massive challenge. It was extremely difficult to get male leaders—who all had different motivations and their own strong opinions—to move as I wanted using only vision and influence, without having control over personnel or money.

Looking back, I think men might have had opportunities to learn how to navigate skillfully within an organization from a long time ago, or perhaps they have support from those around them. I feel like I fought a very lonely battle.

I didn't feel the glass ceiling much. One reason is that I have walked a path centered on cultural projects, which is very unique even within a newspaper company. Since I was the first person hired specifically for that track, there weren't many people specializing in that field.

Although women were still rare in the industry, because it was a cultural project, there were no particular disadvantages, including in overseas negotiations. I might have just been lucky, but I didn't have any experiences that were majorly traumatic.

When I was posted to Kyushu as the Representative of the Seibu Head Office, a president of a local company was surprised, saying, "What, a woman is the newspaper representative?" Rather than feeling the pressure of being the first female head office representative, I just thought of every day as sales, attending various meetings and meeting people. "Culture" became a help, and I truly enjoyed interacting with everyone. Those connections are still alive today.

So, it's okay to try and fail, but it's a waste to give up before you even try. I think it's important for many people to just try first.

Come to think of it, when I took the position of general manager, someone told me, "Women can't speak frankly, so please don't use a woman after all." But my boss said, "You'll understand if you work with her, so please give her a try for a bit," and two years later, that person became a big fan of mine. I was grateful for the presence of that boss.

I was in the first class of career-track employees, the first recruitment after the Equal Employment Opportunity Act came into effect. Although they hired us for the career track, I felt they were confused about how to use or treat us.

I wore a uniform and served tea, and if I answered the phone, I was told, "Put a man on." Since I was only allowed the same amount of overtime as assistant staff, the volume of my work experience ended up being less than that of the men who entered on the same career track. It seems that was the system according to the Labor Standards Act at the time.

However, when I moved to the international department in my third year at the bank, there were many people with work experience overseas, and they were used to women being in the business world abroad. So, in terms of doing the work, it didn't matter that I was a woman. At first, they were worried about me going on overseas business trips and looked out for me, but in terms of the work itself, they let me go all out.

But becoming a manager was a hurdle for me; I strongly wanted to stay in a specialist role doing the work I liked for as long as possible.

That's true, isn't it?

Perhaps because of the difference in how women and men are raised, I had an image of management as moving people or standing above them, and I thought I couldn't do that.

Once I was actually in that position and thought that we could just create things together, I felt more at ease. I felt that if it was about motivating everyone and showing them the direction, then maybe I could do it. In that sense, I think I was able to remove my own barriers by giving it a try.

Ms. Otani, since you have experience at various companies, I imagine the barriers were different in each one.

During the nine years I was at a Japanese company, I was transferred here and there every two years, so I didn't even have time to feel a ceiling. After that, I was at foreign-affiliated companies where I was in an environment where I could do things if I wanted to, so I haven't felt it much.

Even now, with the support of the president, I am allowed to do various things across departments, and basically, no barriers or ceilings come to mind.

That's wonderful. As in Ms. Goto's story earlier, having someone nearby who can say, "No, no, you'll understand if you work with her," when a woman is leading a team and a client says, "A woman is a bit..." is very significant.

That's right. It's not enough to just put someone in a position; there must be someone to support them so they don't fail. Our generation probably just grew up on our own after being left to our own devices, but from now on, we must not only put people in positions but also properly nurture them and help them succeed.

Do you have any ideas or experiences regarding networking for women to be successful?

I think the power of networking is weaker for women compared to men. Therefore, for internal networks, we create small groups for each level so that people just before a promotion can hear various stories from those who have already been promoted.

What we are launching now is an external network. Young people who have been promoted need to exchange information not only within the company but also with people from various other companies. So, to create a place where they can grow further by building business-related networks, we recently had the "SheXO Club" launched. This club is aimed at women active as executives in organizations and next-generation leaders who aim to have a high perspective as true leaders.

I want to create a place where people in similar positions can network widely without being restricted by the framework of their company.

Since there haven't been that many women in the business world until now, I think it's very important to create some kind of forum, as you mentioned. For child-rearing, there are many books, but for women, I think a network is necessary as a place to share unwritten knowledge and experiences when it comes to management, or to be stimulated.

Eventually, I think it would be good if those networks weren't just categorized as "women" but had various types.

One major reason Japan fell to 121st in the Gender Gap Index is the political section (from 125th to 141st). In the political arena, I feel that many things are decided in places that don't come out in the open—not quite a smoke-filled room, but similar—and experience in political maneuvering is also necessary. I suspect the reason for the low ranking is that women cannot enter the places where important decisions are entrusted. What do you think?

The Act on Promotion of Gender Equality in the Political Field was established in 2018. This is called Japan's parity law, but because it is only a target for effort and not a mandate, progress is slow. Just creating a law is not enough; we need to use the law as leverage, work on it quite consciously, and increase the ratio of female legislators.

A few years ago, UN Deputy Secretary-General Amina Mohammed, who was deeply involved in the establishment of the SDGs, said during a visit to Japan, "First, try voting for female candidates. If women are involved in decision-making along with men, it will undoubtedly produce better results than if it were only men."

Naturally, half of the members of society are women. As long as half of the beneficiaries and the providers are women, society will not change significantly unless women speak up more as their representatives and get involved in various things, including policy.

The business world is moving quite a bit now, so it's more about politics, isn't it?

The economic score of the "Gender Gap Index" has risen by about 2 points, but the political score continues to fall.

That's right. Among the indicators, education and health have both been within the top 100 since the survey began, and health in particular was 1st at one point (2017, etc.).

The topic of "househusbands" came up earlier, and it is important to speak up together so that men can also choose the lifestyle they like. When other countries are doing this with such a sense of speed, if Japan proceeds at a natural pace, it might fall even further.

That's true. Japan has been left far behind by India.

Rather than a difference in ability between men and women, I think women's sense of anxiety is greater. Empowerment is important to solve that. In fact, many of the women in our editorial and business departments are active with discretionary power, so they don't feel much of a sense of inferiority for being a woman.

Of course, both men and women make mistakes. However, we must make a society where people don't need to restrict their possibilities from the start by thinking "it's impossible for me," and I think companies have a responsibility to do so.

It's about women also building up the ability to do that with confidence, isn't it?

To talk a little about myself, despite there being so many active people, I was the first woman to become a Vice-President of Keio University. In a sense, that might have been affirmative action.

Of course, there were failures, and there are still various challenges, but I believe the real test is not the evaluation before becoming one, but what you do after. Forming a consensus while gauging the timing might be something women are better suited for.

That's true.

Deciding something top-down is important in some situations, but I go about my daily work thinking that team management—finding a good direction while everyone shares their ideas—might be something women are better at.

Do you have any message or anything you hope for from the men of the world, especially those over 40?

Looking around, I think many people do not believe in the power and value that diversity creates. They might not have had that kind of experience, but the ideas that are born when people with different opinions, different genders, and different values come together are completely different.

There are many times when I've thought, "Oh, I'm glad I called them in," when I had someone with a completely different background join, rather than someone with similar thoughts to my own.

I wish everyone would affirm the value that comes from diversity, transcending various values and not just gender, but I feel it's not really believed in right now, which is a shame.

There are often people who say, "Why do we have to take such a detour? It would be faster if we just proceeded with unspoken understanding," aren't there?

That's right. However, in my experience, proceeding with an idea that has been refined over time in that way produces much better results.

That's because it's thoroughly hashed out beforehand. There are various opinions from many sides saying, "Isn't that wrong?" and the resulting product is very good and, moreover, strong.

Not just gender, but for companies to grow and for Japanese society to become stronger, I think we must push diversity more to the forefront.

The market is globalizing, and people's lifestyles, ways of thinking, and preferences are also diversifying. Within that, companies must find latent demand, provide products and services, and do business. Since we are required to respond quickly and flexibly to diverse and rapid market changes, I think it will be difficult for companies to truly survive unless they seek innovation through the realization of diversity.

More companies must accelerate this as a strategy, truly making it "their own business."

In the era of mass consumption, for example, I think it was a world where competition was about selling home appliances, and the competitors were visible and winning or losing was easy to understand. But now, competition spans across sectors and industries, the opponents are invisible, goals are unclear, the content to compete on is diverse, and business model transformation is necessary. In such an era, I think ideas are born by working with more people who have various perspectives.

The top leaders, such as those who have joined the 30% Club, all feel this firsthand. Since many are global companies, they have a strong feeling that they cannot compete in the world without diversity.

Men are also so different that you can't lump them together as "men."

My son is 20 now, and his values are already completely different. But in a few years, they will be entering companies.

That's right. We really have to think about diversity by generation as well. Young people truly have different values, so if we don't take various measures, they won't follow us.

People in their 40s are a generation that also demonstrates their strength as managers. The topic of "Ikuboss" (bosses who support childcare leave) often comes up, and they are precisely the middle management generation that interacts most with the younger generation.

It is very important for that generation to encourage taking childcare leave and to speak up in workplaces where it is difficult to take leave. Especially in the case of men's childcare leave, it's hard until one person takes it in that workplace, but once one person takes it, there's a flow where others follow suit. In many cases, the first breakthrough is difficult without the supervisor's understanding and support.

Including such things, since they play the role of connecting the management generation of 50 and older with the younger generation, I think the role of managers in their 40s is important.

People in their 40s can no longer fight with the styles and values they have aimed for until now, and some might be finding it painful.

But as you said, middle management in their 40s is a very important role. A company's competitiveness will change significantly depending on how flexibly those middle management people can work to propagate the top's will downwards.

That's right. Even at Keio, I feel there is a large gap in awareness regarding participation in childcare between the so-called professor-class generation and male faculty members in their 40s who are right in the middle of raising children. If we don't respond while being aware of the generational gap, we won't be able to secure good human resources even at a university.

I'm sure it's the same for companies, but I truly feel that an organization will not become strong unless people with a sensitivity to change are at the top.

I would be grateful if you could give a message not only to women but also to the Keio students currently studying at Keio University and the young Keio University alumni.

First, as a matter of awareness, I want people to properly understand that there are diverse ways of working and to think flexibly about their life designs and personal goals. I believe the era of joining a large company and staying there for a lifetime is already over.

I want women to start with the premise that their possibilities are infinite. The glass ceiling will likely be gone by the time current students enter the workforce, and I want them to grow steadily, including in their own ways of working.

Furthermore, I want them to move forward without fear of reaching the top. Women often tend to feel that being second is easier because they don't face as much pressure, but the world you see from the very top is truly different. I am not saying everyone must become a leader, but I want people to maintain a broad perspective not just in Japan, but anywhere in the world, and challenge various possibilities.

I also hope that young people will not restrain themselves from the start, but rather pursue their possibilities while exploring what it is they truly want to do.

Of course, living in society involves various setbacks. However, if you hold onto your aspirations, a path will surely open up ahead. I want them to believe in their own potential and live positively.

I also want them to be conscious that they themselves are carrying the paths that branch out in various directions as role models for the next generation. Moreover, the field of activity is truly becoming global. I hope to see more people who say, "If the gender gap in Japan doesn't close with a sense of speed, I will do my best overseas."

Future students will be entering a competitive arena where goals are even more unclear. Therefore, I don't think there is a need to deliberately seek the "correct answer" immediately during their student days. I hope they will increasingly engage in exchanging opinions with others and enjoy a chaotic world without trying to be perfect students.

I believe Keio is a globally open university. Whether working in Japan or abroad, I think being global while maintaining pride as a Japanese person—or rather, the good qualities of being Japanese—will become a strength. I would like to ask for the cultivation of individuals who value both, and I hope students become such people.

I have changed companies and worked across different countries. I have always been flustered amidst change, but it has been enjoyable in its own way. That is why I believe "doing what is fun" is important.

Instead of doing something because it was forced upon you by someone else, just try it if you sniff out that it "looks fun." Otherwise, it won't last. I believe that by doing so, your strength will naturally grow and you will be able to continue, so I definitely want you to find something fun.

I believe Keio University is a school where women can thrive freely. Students can enjoy their student life without being very conscious of discrimination between men and women.

However, it seems there are quite a few young female Keio University alumni who, despite never having thought about gender-based constraints at the university, realize that a glass ceiling actually exists in society and become disillusioned.

The current glass ceiling is a transitional thing, and society is truly transforming. Amidst globalization, Japan will likely be forced to change rapidly as well.

Therefore, even if you happen to notice the ceiling now and feel disappointed, there is no need to be too preoccupied with it. In a changing society, it is important to value your own identity and pursue what you love while exploring your possibilities. Life is long, so you just have to keep going without losing yourself or getting too caught up in ups and downs.

The networking mentioned earlier is very important. We are in an era where we can choose from a wider variety of jobs than in the past. There is the freedom of choice to move to another company if one doesn't fit, or to work across national borders. In such times, by valuing various encounters, networks can be utilized in your work. I myself have been greatly helped by this.

I feel that if you value encounters and build networks both inside and outside the company, various forms of help will naturally come your way. So, I don't want you to be disappointed right away.

I agree. The glass ceiling will not be there forever.

A certain amount of patience is also necessary—or rather, if you just jump somewhere else immediately saying "I hate it here," it won't become your own nourishment, so you should stick it out for about three years. Nowadays, people might not be able to wait three years (laughs), but after showing some endurance, why not think flexibly? Things won't be bad forever. I believe the times are moving.

As Ms. Otani said, I think it is important to be able to feel that something is "fun." Looking back at my 20s and 30s, there were many times I thought, "Maybe I'll just quit," but because the work was fun, I continued. I want you to find something fun. To that end, if you need to change jobs, it is also important to expand your network so that you can access various information.

Also, I think it is important to let unpleasant things slide. If you take them too head-on, it leads to stress, so there is also the option of letting it go while thinking "there they go again" and not paying much attention to them.

That's the power of insensitivity.

I also really hated being the first one to go to the office every day to wipe the desks, wash the ashtrays, and make tea. I did it while thinking, "How long am I going to keep doing this?"

I also went an hour before everyone else to clean my seniors' desks and fill the pots with hot water. But I also made the male junior who started a year after me do it. Because that's what the person at the bottom does.

Amazing. But you're right.

There were many unpleasant things, but because I was very curious, the desire to do this or know that became my motivation, and I've made it this far. I worked hard thinking, "This will be a funny story someday too." I hope people can overcome things in that way.

I believe female students at Keio University are active and free within the school, competing with men—or rather, managing them (laughs).

According to Tokyo Shoko Research, the number of female presidents from Keio University ranks 3rd, but in Teikoku Databank, it has been 1st for two consecutive years. According to data from Asahi Shimbun Publications, the number of female faculty members at Keio has also been 1st for 10 years. I sincerely hope that female students raised in a free and open academic culture that does not make them feel gender differences will continue to be active in society with energy, joy, and curiosity.

Since you all have shown those role models, I expect that the next generation of role models will follow in your footsteps and take flight from the Juku one after another to be active globally, not just in Japan.

Thank you very much for today.