Martial Arts Kingdom: Brazil

I started Capoeira (a Brazilian culture that combines elements of martial arts, music, and dance) in high school and started a club while I was in university. I continued even after entering the workforce, and now I serve as a dojo master.

However, I didn't intend to do Capoeira at first. At the time, mixed martial arts (MMA) was very popular, and I thought, "I'm going to do this!" But when I actually tried to do it, the world was full of athletes with incredible physical abilities, so I thought I wouldn't be able to win very easily.

That's when I arrived at Capoeira.

What kind of sport is Capoeira?

Simply put, it is a martial art centered on leg techniques. While leg techniques themselves exist in other martial arts, Capoeira techniques involve a variety of movements, such as delivering kicks while moving close to the ground or performing techniques while doing a handstand. MMA is an "anything goes" sport where you keep fighting even if you fall or get thrown, so I thought the diverse movements of Capoeira might be effective within that. That was one of the reasons I started.

Mr. Matsuda, what was it that actually made you decide to do Gracie Jiu-Jitsu?

I encountered Gracie Jiu-Jitsu when I went to study in the United States after graduating from the Faculty of Environment and Information Studies. I wasn't originally interested in martial arts, but I wanted to do some physical activity. When I looked at the "Gym" category in the local phone book, the Gracie Dojo was listed there. At the time, Royce Gracie had become famous in the MMA organization called the UFC (Ultimate Fighting Championship), so I knew the name.

When I started, I found that it focused mainly on martial arts and self-defense, which was completely different from the image of so-called mixed martial arts. It wasn't very scary, and I felt it was easy to do. I wanted to become a physical education teacher at SFC when I returned to Japan, but I didn't really have a specialized field for what I would actually teach. That's when I encountered Gracie Jiu-Jitsu and thought it was suitable for teaching in school education as a martial art for self-defense.

After serving as a part-time physical education instructor at SFC for 14 years, I now run a Jiu-Jitsu dojo. It is not a Gracie Certified Training Center, but I teach the philosophies and techniques I learned from Gracie.

I also originally wanted to do mixed martial arts, but when I was one of the Keio students, there were no organizations on campus where I could do such sports. At that time, I heard that the Shorinjikempo Team in the Faculty of Science and Technology was very strong, so I decided to join. I didn't know anything about Shorinji Kempo, but I worked hard for four years and was even able to win a tournament.

After that, I studied Karate and various other sports, but when I wondered if there was anything left I hadn't done before getting married, I started Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu to try out ground fighting.

However, when I tried it, although I had worked on striking until then and there were parts that were applicable to other martial arts, I couldn't do anything when I sparred in Jiu-Jitsu. It was a total shock.

So because it was ground fighting, your striking experience didn't translate.

Exactly. First of all, I didn't know what to do once I was on the ground. Even if I tried to punch, it felt impossible if I was taken down and pinned that properly.

I've heard that dance and music are also important elements in Capoeira. Is it a bit different from martial arts where people punch each other?

That's right. One major factor is that its origins are unclear. It is inferred that it was likely created around the 16th century when a large number of Black people were brought from Africa to Brazil as slaves for labor. It has a history of about 500 years, but it's not clearly known through what process or what mixture of things it was created.

Presumably, when various African tribes were gathered together, they could communicate through body movements even if they didn't speak the same language. I think there was also a sense of increasing camaraderie by enjoying their African culture together. I believe the strong influence of dance and music elements comes from that background.

There are many mysterious parts to it.

However, because the origins are vague, there isn't the issue of something created by one person later splitting into factions and causing problems. Everyone does it freely, so the names of techniques, rules, and philosophies differ completely depending on the school.

I see. When people talk about Jiu-Jitsu in Brazil, there is Gracie Jiu-Jitsu and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. What is the difference between these two?

They are often confused, but Gracie Jiu-Jitsu is not a competitive sport; it is a martial art with self-defense as its core philosophy, and its origins are said to be Japanese Jiu-Jitsu. Originally, Jiu-Jitsu was created on Japanese battlefields, and later Jigoro Kano modernized Jiu-Jitsu into Kodokan Judo. Mitsuyo Maeda, a disciple of Jigoro Kano, traveled to Brazil and taught it to the Gracie family, which is considered the origin of what we call Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.

I see.

The Gracie family modified Japanese Judo and established Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, which focuses on ground fighting. Later, the sporting aspect of Jiu-Jitsu developed and spread in Brazil, becoming Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.

In other words, if you trace them back, they are the same Jiu-Jitsu?

I believe so. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu was also originally Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, but the sporting elements gradually became stronger, self-defense elements were removed, and it was established as a competition. It's a martial art where people compete using chokes and joint locks, primarily on the ground. When people hear "Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu," many probably associate it with this sport.

There are many similarities, but the big difference is whether the emphasis is on self-defense or on sport. Gracie Jiu-Jitsu has a sporting side, but the priority is not competing in tournaments, but how to protect oneself in an actual situation. By first acquiring self-defense as the core and then starting Jiu-Jitsu vs. Jiu-Jitsu, it balances being the "ultimate self-defense" and a "wonderful sport" at the same time.

When people come to learn from you, Mr. Matsuda, which do they usually have in mind: Gracie or Brazilian?

It varies from person to person. People around our age often have images of Royce Gracie or Rickson Gracie. Younger people sometimes inquire after seeing Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu on TV or in videos.

However, those who became interested by seeing so-called Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu view Jiu-Jitsu as a competition.

Therefore, I start by explaining that we are not a sport Jiu-Jitsu dojo, and that in Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, self-defense comes first and sport comes after. If there is a discrepancy between what they want to do and what we teach, it would be unfortunate, and it's not something we should impose unilaterally.

There is a similar dilemma in Shorinji Kempo. Many young people who want to join come looking to do intense martial arts, and I want to meet that need, but since Shorinji Kempo is fundamentally a self-defense art, it inevitably looks more plain than they expect.

To be honest, the reason I do various martial arts is because I want to address their needs and show them, "If you do it this way, you can become strong, but beyond that, there is self-defense and spiritual growth," and I want to teach that through Shorinji.

That's a difficult point for Capoeira as well. As I mentioned earlier, there are many parts that differ from school to school. So, I try to ask what they saw that brought them to the dojo. For example, I give an overall explanation while asking if they came after seeing a video game or if they came with a sense of fitness. I assume that no one comes with a complete understanding of Capoeira.

At first glance, it's very hard to understand what we are doing, so I explain everything at the beginning. I tell them that they will gradually be able to do martial elements and acrobatic elements as well.

Recently, there seem to be many cases where athletes from Capoeira or Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu backgrounds are successful in MMA. What factors do you think are significant here?

It's difficult to say exactly what to link within the category of Brazil. A while ago, even in the world of Karate, there was a period when Brazil was very strong. I watched a match when Francisco Filho was the Kyokushin Karate world champion, and I felt a great deal of flexibility in his fighting style. Japanese martial arts tend to have a strong sense of "how things should be" and easily fall into fixed patterns.

However, when I went to practice Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu or MMA, I felt the atmosphere of the gym or dojo was somehow different from Japanese martial arts. You do what you want to do at your own pace. They respect each person's individuality and work hard together. There is that kind of flexibility.

On the other hand, when they do it, they practice incredibly hard. They also do terrifying amounts of intense, old-fashioned, guts-driven practice, like something out of the manga "Star of the Giants." The fact that they have both sides is very interesting.

Mr. Sasamori, based on what you said earlier, Capoeira seems to have many irregular movements. Are those movements difficult for MMA fighters to read?

I often watch UFC matches myself, and once you get to that level, normal attacks don't work very easily. When that happens, I think attacks from fighters with a Capoeira background, or those who have learned its movements, are extremely effective.

Have you ever incorporated Capoeira movements into an MMA match?

Not in a match, but I've tried it during light sparring. Even just slightly curving the trajectory of a kick is usually something an opponent can't handle.

You mentioned that Gracie Jiu-Jitsu was based on the Jiu-Jitsu brought by Mitsuyo Maeda, but are there similarities with Japanese Judo?

I think it's quite different from modern Japanese Judo. Judo is Jigoro Kano's modernization of Jiu-Jitsu, but a major difference from Gracie Jiu-Jitsu is that Jigoro Kano did not consider ground techniques as important as throwing techniques.

Judo in its early days was brought to Brazil, and for the Gracie family who first learned it—especially Helio Gracie, who had a slender build—Judo techniques were difficult. Therefore, he modified all the techniques and created Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, which focuses on ground fighting and emphasizes leverage and timing over strength and speed. I think of it like a father called Japanese Jiu-Jitsu having an older brother called Judo, which focuses on throws and standing techniques, and a younger brother called Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, which focuses on ground fighting.

Even in Japanese Judo, Kosen Judo has rules where people strong in ground fighting have an advantage. Thinking of Japanese Jiu-Jitsu as the original root is very interesting.

I also think it's not very interesting when sports that were originally played in a relaxed manner become increasingly regulated and segmented. For example, in a Kosen Judo match, I thought it was amazing how the referee doesn't stop the match and they keep going for a full 10 minutes.

Having actually done Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, do you feel that these movements can be applied to Shorinji, or that there are similarities?

I think the use of the core is completely different. By incorporating the way the core is used in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, striking becomes stronger.

Also, conversely, I was always thinking about how I could use Shorinji techniques while on the ground. However, there are many techniques that would be fouls, so I have to be careful about that.

I'd like to ask Mr. Matsuda, in Jiu-Jitsu, is it okay to attack the opponent's pain points or pressure points?

I'm not sure about the rules of sport Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, but the philosophy and practice we do at Gracie are different from sport Jiu-Jitsu.

For example, striking is prohibited in sport Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, but we consider first how to respond if you actually get into trouble on the street, get mounted, and someone starts punching you. We also practice how to escape when someone directly grabs your neck and chokes you.

Of course, we don't do truly dangerous things like eye-gouging, groin attacks, or biting. However, in our minds, we spar with the assumption that "the opponent might do those things."

Because it's self-defense, it's about how to move in a world where there is a danger of being attacked.

This is borrowing the words of Rickson Gracie, but back when Gracie Jiu-Jitsu was born in Brazil, people went to the dojo because they wanted to learn how to protect themselves and how to deal with unexpected situations. At the time, Brazil had poor public safety and was dangerous, so Jiu-Jitsu was a means of self-defense, not a sport. Acquiring the techniques, philosophy, and confidence to protect oneself even if something troublesome happened on the street—that was the primary motivation for people to learn Jiu-Jitsu back then.

So the self-defense aspect is indeed strong.

After that, they start enjoying the high-level game of self-defense that is Jiu-Jitsu vs. Jiu-Jitsu, but the foundation is self-defense. Therefore, I think MMA also has that kind of element—an "anything goes" side. Punching, throwing, pinning on the ground, and sometimes going for punches from the ground. It has things in common with the street, a world without rules.

There is a story that when Rickson showed mount punches in an MMA match, people laughed and said, "What is that? Isn't that just a kids' fight?" but being able to do that at that top level is amazing in itself. At first glance, it looks like a fight, but the thinking and refined techniques leading up to it are completely different.

Brazilians are Latino and cheerful, and I don't have a strong image of them being bellicose, but in reality, athletes from Jiu-Jitsu and Capoeira backgrounds often succeed and win championships in MMA tournaments. Does this mean the Brazilian mentality is suited for martial artists?

I think they are people with a great power to survive. When you go to Brazil, the infrastructure is a bit inferior to Japan; roads are bumpy, you don't know when the next bus is coming, and water and electricity often stop. Even among top MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) fighters, some have become champions coming from slums called favelas. I think those kinds of experiences translate into martial arts.

They can live cheerfully amidst hardship and sublimate painful experiences into strength. They are people with a great richness of various emotions, and I have a sense that this was cultivated for the sake of survival.

How popular is Capoeira?

Brazil is large, so I think it varies completely by region. The place where the headquarters dojo is located is the state of Bahia, which is the old capital. It's a port city where many Black people were brought, and Capoeira is also flourishing there.

I'm not familiar with urban areas like Sao Paulo or Rio de Janeiro because unfortunately I haven't been there, but I've heard there are about 6 million players in Brazil, so I think it's a popular sport.

In Japan, how many people are doing Capoeira?

I don't know the player population, but there are about 60 groups, including large and small organizations. Throughout Japan, there are very few prefectures that don't have a place to practice.

Japan is unique in that large Brazilian organizations don't really send teachers; rather, it's mostly cases where people who have practiced in Brazil decide to start their own school in Japan. That's why many small organizations coexist.

What is the gender ratio of the people who come to your dojo, Matsuda-san?

We don't have any female members right now, but at the Gracie headquarters in Los Angeles, there are a huge number of them. They even have self-defense classes for women.

Are there few in Japan?

That's right. Perhaps the Gracie headquarters is special. I think it's rare to see a dojo with that many women. The atmosphere is also incredibly frank.

What kind of people are the Gracie family?

The first generation was Helio, the second generation was brothers like Rorion, Rickson, and Royce, and now it's the third generation. The dojo I go to is run by Rorion's sons, Ryron and Rener, who are at the top. They are around 40 years old, and while they are of Brazilian descent, they were born and raised in America, so I think their way of thinking is American.

They are generous and cheerful, but strong at their core. They deeply respect their father, uncles, and grandfather, and take pride in the fact that Gracie Jiu-Jitsu is a martial art rooted in traditional self-defense. That doesn't mean they are overly strict; their outward manner is incredibly soft. I think it's easy for middle-aged people like us, women, and children to join.

When I think of Gracie, I had an image of them being a militant group because they used to hold matches against other styles called the "Gracie Challenge," but that's not the case, is it?

I don't think they did that because they wanted to fight other styles or because they welcomed dojo challengers. Originally, what Helio did when he was in Brazil was to prove the effectiveness of Jiu-Jitsu as a self-defense art. Jiu-Jitsu is the best self-defense. He wanted to prove that you can protect yourself even from a larger opponent who weighs more than you. I think he fought matches against other styles because he wanted the public to recognize that.

I believe Rorion founded the UFC with the same intention. The UFC was created in 1993, and by then there were already various martial arts, so the intention was not to decide who was the strongest, but to decide which system was most effective as a self-defense art by bringing various disciplines together in one place.

In the case of Shorinji Kempo, the most exciting time was about 30 years ago, right when Jackie Chan was very popular. Compared to that time, the number of members has decreased, but there are still many students who try to start Shorinji Kempo from university. It's especially popular with women.

What are the most common motivations for people to start?

The reasons vary. There are people who want to learn Shorinji Kempo as a martial art and become strong as competitors, and people who want to become strong in practical combat or fighting, while on the other hand, there are people who come wanting to have something like inner strength.

Also, after learning Shorinji Kempo, some people go into the world of mixed martial arts. I myself don't teach at a mixed martial arts gym now, but I do provide comprehensive karate instruction, so I sometimes introduce them after being consulted.

I hear that various people come to Sasamori-san's place, but do you divide the courses by person or age?

Basically, everyone is the same. We don't make any distinctions based on age, and the only difference is between adults and children. Since people can just do what they can within their own range, even people who can't lift their legs at first gradually become able to do so as they keep going.

In Shorinji Kempo as well, we have all beginners do the same practice. If someone who is experienced and already has a dan rank joins, we separate them, but basically, seniors teach juniors.

Are there also alumni coaches?

Alumni coaches do come, but basically, it's self-managed. In addition to techniques, students can gain various experiences. University Shorinjikempo Teams might be particularly strong in that aspect.

Is it about things like what they learn through practice?

That's right. In that regard, they really have to think about how to operate as a team and learn in various ways.

When you are in a position to teach, a sense of responsibility is born, and you start to think hard about how to convey techniques to juniors so they can understand and master them. I think that becomes a good experience.

That's an interesting point unique to university club activities. My dojo has an older demographic, with an average age in the late 40s.

Is it okay to start at that age?

It's fine. We target people over 40 as our main audience, and we aim to make Jiu-Jitsu a lifestyle to enjoy for a lifetime.

Don't you need much physical strength?

You don't need much. Gracie Jiu-Jitsu specializes in survival, so if you exhaust your physical strength, you lose. Even in sparring or actual combat on the street, you move as little as possible to conserve energy. If the opponent becomes reckless and uses up their strength, you can bridge the gap in size and muscle. We practice moving with energy efficiency, doing as little as possible.

Capoeira seems like it would require physical strength.

It feels like the movements and strategies you choose change depending on your age and physical condition. It's closer to a sport, and there's an aspect of how to approach a Capoeira match.

Is a match like a performance?

No, they are actually fighting. However, that fight also has various directions, so it depends on the combination. In our case, the oldest is around 70 and the youngest is around 3, but age and physical strength don't matter at all; everyone does what they can, and if there is a level difference, it's a world where you respect the lower-level person and lower your level a bit.

Is there basic training like running?

It feels like most of the movements themselves are basic training. For example, if you practice movements like handstands and cartwheels a lot, your body will naturally become like that. We incorporate sit-ups as part of training, but you can assume there is almost no strength training.

It seems easy for people who don't usually exercise to take up.

My company also recently started trial sessions for creators. We teach things that are okay even for people who don't move their bodies.

I myself have an admiration for mixed martial arts matches, but when it comes to entering a tournament, it's quite difficult because of work. I have a fellow business owner who enters tournaments, but he practices MMA six days a week. Whether I can go that far...

It's difficult, isn't it?

It's really difficult. I've received offers to open a Shorinji Kempo dojo or a gym, but I think it would be hard to actually do it, so I think it's a bit impossible right now. I'd like to practice mixed martial arts until I'm about 60, and if there's an over-60 tournament, I'd like to try entering it.

It would be interesting to have tournaments categorized by age. Are there tournaments in Capoeira?

Originally it's not something to decide victory or defeat, but some places do hold tournaments. In tournaments, it's a format where points are scored based on various elements.

So it becomes a judged sport.

That's right. However, when that happens, flashy and visually appealing things tend to be highly evaluated. I wonder about that.

For example, there are old styles that are very ritualistic and mainly use movements that move slowly near the floor. I wonder if it's okay for a famous master from there not to be evaluated even if they enter a tournament.

I understand that the passion for tournaments—wanting to be evaluated in the public eye on a flashy stage—attracts everyone, so I don't deny it, but I can't quite affirm it either.

It's different from competitive sports, isn't it?

There are quite different parts.

In sports Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, older people also participate, and many enjoy it. The age categories are subdivided every five years into Master 1 (30–35), Master 2 (36–40), and so on, so they enjoy competing based on their age, weight, and belt color.

In a competition, basically, the time you can no longer win might be when you retire, but with age categories like in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, there is an environment where there is no retirement and you can maintain great motivation to recognize yourself. I think it's well-designed.

Earlier there was talk about the Gracie family's demonstrations, and Capoeira also has a teacher who is like a founding father of the revival, and he is my direct master. That person modernized Capoeira and led it to legalization, and from there the base expanded.

That teacher similarly fought and won all matches against athletes from other disciplines in the ring to show the effectiveness of Capoeira, demonstrating Capoeira's new style and effectiveness. I thought that strength is one big element in reaching out to the world.

Do Brazilians have something like a martial arts spirit?

It's hard to say if there is a martial arts spirit. Capoeira was not practiced by wealthy people. After the slaves were liberated, there were people who had no way to earn a living and used Capoeira for bad deeds. Because of such acts, there was a period when it was banned.

To completely change that bad image, they changed the way it existed, such as teaching Capoeira to middle-class white people. They also moved practice indoors and implemented reforms such as the dojo not accepting anyone who didn't have a proper job.

That might be necessary in today's mixed martial arts world as well. MMA is already different, starting from the atmosphere of the match venue and the visitors.

But being able to properly express those pent-up feelings in a legitimate place might be one good thing about martial arts. It's not exactly a kind of release, but I think something in the spirit can be cultivated within that.

Because there is something to concentrate on like that, being able to avoid getting involved in bad deeds is a slightly different direction from preaching a path, but I think it leads people in a good direction.

That might be something that connects to martial arts. Sasamori-san, what kind of things do you want to convey through Capoeira?

It can be said that martial arts provide many opportunities for direct contact with people. Right now, the distance between people is very far, isn't it? You don't even know what kind of person lives next door in your apartment. But with Capoeira, and of course Jiu-Jitsu, if you do it, people gather and can directly exchange hands. I think there are aspects where you can understand each other by doing that.

Also, by doing the same discipline, you can feel a sense of closeness as a community. Especially for things with a Brazilian connection, their cheerfulness must be at the root, and I think that side can also be conveyed through the discipline.

I have a desire to contribute to Japan through Capoeira with warm communication like a Brazilian "large family."

I believe that training through the body is one means of understanding oneself as a human being. Ultimately, you have to take all the results as your own, face your current skill level, and properly re-examine yourself. If there is an opponent, you also need to understand that opponent.

You could call it a sense of distance, but I think Shorinji Kempo is a very good tool for better understanding people. I think that is something at the root of any martial art or combat sport.

I currently teach mainly at universities but also outside, and I hope that such ways of thinking spread in a good way not only in Japan but throughout the world. I think the importance of understanding oneself and the opponent will become more necessary in the coming era.

I think one word that becomes an important keyword is ego. Every human has an ego, but by doing Jiu-Jitsu, self-defense, and Gracie Jiu-Jitsu in particular, you can recognize your own ego.

Ego comes up as one of the concepts in how to face Jiu-Jitsu after 40, but the day will come when the skill level of someone who was below you reverses and you lose to that person. You must accept that fact firmly.

Continuing to believe that you are the strongest until the end is nothing but an ego and an illusion, so you have to recognize that and grow as a human being to the point where you can praise the opponent for having grown.

If you do that, you can gain a more important joy for yourself—the wonderful joy of being able to do Jiu-Jitsu even at 60 or 70. I think if you can recognize that ego and sublimate it within yourself, you can enjoy your life for much longer.

I'd like to have a long relationship with martial arts with that kind of thinking.